VOGONS


First post, by srmeister

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Hi,
im building a P3 slot 1 system right now. The Mobo is Gigabyte GA-6BA which is a Baby-AT board. It has 1x AGP, 5xPCI and 2x ISA. The board is pretty good but i tried to upgrade the graphics card to a Radeon 9800 SE which according to http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/dis … owercons_8.html draws arround 30W when idle. Its not really alot. Even full load is only 55W. Remember i got a 9800 SE when this site lists power consumption for 9800 Pro, so i should be even lower.

My problem is the PC just crashed after a while with this cards ( i got 2 of these 9800 SE and problem is the same with both).
It has a floppy drive power connector so it draws current directly from the power supply, besides from the AGP slot.
I just saw in BIOS, this board has a Voltage Display in BIOS, and i can watch the +3.3V drop and drop until about the last reading is 3.0V then the machine just goes black. Same symptom when iam idle in Windows (W98 SE). The machine just goes black after ~2minutes.

I tried different PSU's: 2x 350W, 1x220W. Same problem on each PSU. So i guess the PSU Rating doesnt matter.
Also, the PC is mostly empty: connected is only one HDD and nothing else.

What can i do to make this setup stable, if anything? I assume the board doesnt supply enough current to the AGP slot. In the Link above, the guy soldered wires to the graphics card's AGP connector in order to measure the current going through.

Hope you have some ideas about this mess,
Stefan

Reply 1 of 14, by ODwilly

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From what it sounds like the motherboard may be unable to supply enough Amperage through the AGP slot. I know this was a common issue on AGP systems in that transition period between AT and ATX formats with some Slot 1 motherboards and Super 7. If you have anything older on hand and less powerful, like a Geforce 2 mx, TNT, or something like that give it a try and see if you have the same issues.

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Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 2 of 14, by srmeister

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yes i have tested it with an Elsa Erazor III (AGP, riva TNT2 based) and an ASUS AGP-V7100 (AGP, Nvidia Geforce 2 MX based) both work witout problems.

couldnt i just solder a wire onto the AGP slot or onto the Card itself to support the AGP current directly from PSU? Has anyone done this?

Reply 3 of 14, by ODwilly

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I am no expert, but I think the issue there would be regulation. IIRC the technical issue is the chip that regulates/supplies voltage to the AGP slot does not supply enough Amperage, bypassing that regulating circuitry completely I think you would end up frying the video card at the least, possibly the motherboard as well.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 5 of 14, by ODwilly

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Very interesting solution. I will say that with a Slot 1 motherboard you are pretty cpu limited anyways, so you arent missing out on much using a slower card.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 7 of 14, by ODwilly

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candle_86 wrote:

I agree on a Slot 1 system you'd do just fine with say a Ti 500 or Radeon 8500

I agree here! Even a Ti200 or Radeon 7500 would be solid. Geforce 3 ti200's are really cheap and easy to find. Save those 9800's for faster machines that can fully utilize them 😀 heck, those cards are getting pretty rare in working shape anyways. They have a bad tendency of running hot and burning up.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 9 of 14, by ODwilly

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Any time! Iv been filling out job apps all day so this has been open in a tab. Some nice relief from the monotony.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 10 of 14, by Kamerat

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An AT motherboard with AGP slot must have an onboard voltage regulator for the AGP slot to provide 3.3V as the AT standard doesn't supply it. I guess the regulator is too weak for your 9800 SE.
Also some early AGP equipped ATX boards had an onboard regulator for the AGP slot, like the Asus P2L97. Mine couldn't handle a GeForce DDR, the system crashed when the driver loaded.

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Reply 11 of 14, by GuillermoXT

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I've made the AGP mod with the help of Matze79 on my GA-6ba for more current and still had issues with the MX440 freezing in Grandia2 and Toca2. After I installed the Radeon 9200se the 3dmark99 results were around 49xx instead of 5115 from the Nvidia but the PC doesn't seem to freeze anymore and even with shadows enabled Grandia2 runs smooth.

My Retrosystems:
K6-2 400 running Win98SE
P1-133 with Win3.11
Tandon 286-8MHZ Running DOS 5.0 on XT-IDE Card

Reply 12 of 14, by Cuttoon

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srmeister wrote on 2016-11-15, 21:58:

It has a floppy drive power connector so it draws current directly from the power supply, besides from the AGP slot.

Guess I'm missing something but should not the motherboard be out of the game if the graphics card has its own dedicated power cable?
Just saying, because everybody kept discussing the motherboard's capabilities?

Also, for the late AT era, 55 Watt of anything is a f*ckton of power consumption.
That's roughly the time when the first fans appeared on VGA cards, huh?

So, if not for the floppy connector bypass, the motherboard should be utterly incapable of supplying that kind of juice.
Only the full blown AGP Pro was supposed to handle more than 50 Watts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Gra … wer_consumption
Pretty sure what killed our parent's first Slot A mobo was my brother's humble Geforce 256 and that thing's TDP doesn't even register.
(Motherboard was a cheap M7MKE one from Biostar, though.)

So, it will not work without the bypass and it might not work with it because the Card does something with it that the board can't handle and/or which leads to strange effecs on the PSU. My theory. Switching PSUs are strange sometimes.

Well, sorry, I also think you should just call it a day and go with something less of a room heating implement. 😉

I like jumpers.

Reply 13 of 14, by Cuttoon

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Kamerat wrote on 2016-11-16, 05:24:

An AT motherboard with AGP slot must have an onboard voltage regulator for the AGP slot to provide 3.3V as the AT standard doesn't supply it. I guess the regulator is too weak for your 9800 SE.
Also some early AGP equipped ATX boards had an onboard regulator for the AGP slot, like the Asus P2L97. Mine couldn't handle a GeForce DDR, the system crashed when the driver loaded.

Only just realized that this is a zombie thread.

But, for what it worth, OP has two 350 W PSU, so they're probably ATX. Board takes both.
And I don't think using a AT one would have made any difference. But does the board need to be jumpered accordingly?

I like jumpers.

Reply 14 of 14, by GuillermoXT

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Rev 3 has separate jumpers for more current like Voodoo3 cards need but mine for example is rev 2.5
Besides I use a brand new EVGA BR ATX PSU with 450W.

My Retrosystems:
K6-2 400 running Win98SE
P1-133 with Win3.11
Tandon 286-8MHZ Running DOS 5.0 on XT-IDE Card