The limiting factor to K6 overclockability isn't heat, it's a design issue which makes most of them unable to go over 600MHz whatsoever. The same issue happened to pentium 3 coppermine when they reached 1.12GHz. They might run hotter than pentiums or other socket 7 CPUs, but I don't think that they go so warm that they become unstable. The cooler of my K6-2 is just a regular aluminium cooler with some thermal paste and it cools my K6-2 450 pretty decently. The only "upgrade" to cooling I could do with that computer would be to replace the fan by another one made by noctua for example (which is what I did on my pentium 3 1GHz and now that computer is almost silent)

I have 80mm Noctuas but even those I consider to be "loud" so idk. Maybe I am just real picky. I'm also spoiled by the case sitting about 3 feet away from me at ear level, using all 140mm fans at low speed I guess we'll see how loud things are when I get it into a proper case. I could up some noise dampening stuff too

I've used Aluminium 5cm HSFs which I found to be very quiet (K6-2 is alright when it comes to power dissipation. K6-III, s370 Mendocinos and 2.9v MIIs are the more problematic CPUs) and these work pretty much fine, provided you don't use some high MHz speed like 550MHz or above and you don't use a chip that has default higher voltage than 2.2v (the 550MHz K6-2 has 2.3v by default btw).

But it's a bit hit and miss and many ss7 boards have problems with mounting larger HSFs (you may have to modify the metal part of the heatsink).

Perhaps try a cooler with a relatively small base, like an Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 3?

edit: woops, didn't realize we were already on page 2 😊

Nah that's cool. I think this board is actually very accomodating space wise around the socket. I've found posts through google where people have said they've used socket A coolers Provided the footprint is right and the PSU in the case isn't in the way a 5cm or 6cm cooler should fit OK.

Neco wrote:

Nah that's cool. I think this board is actually very accomodating space wise around the socket. I've found posts through google where people have said they've used socket A coolers Provided the footprint is right and the PSU in the case isn't in the way a 5cm or 6cm cooler should fit OK.

It's a common trick. Lots of people do it for s370 all the time 😀

To me it was a great way to use those cheap stock sA HSFs which were left over after I started using Copper Silent 3s for my sA rigs 😜

Another trick is to mix and match heatsink and CPU fan to get best results. Remember that Athlon XP can have up to twice the thermal footprint of any s370 chip.

Neco wrote:

I have 80mm Noctuas but even those I consider to be "loud" so idk. Maybe I am just real picky. I'm also spoiled by the case sitting about 3 feet away from me at ear level, using all 140mm fans at low speed I guess we'll see how loud things are when I get it into a proper case. I could up some noise dampening stuff too

Mine doesn't do any noise, the computer itself makes some, but nothing terrible (except when CDs are read ...) I chechked the fan alone and I really can't hear it. Mine is only 40mm though (I needed a 60mm one but I chose the wrong one. The heatsink is still not really warm with that fan). I'd need to buy some more because all my other PCs with fans have old ones which sometimes are loud (especially the one from my K6-2. I guess I could also slow it down, but I think I'll just buy a bunch of brand new fans and put them in replacement to all the old ones. I'd need to do that also with some psus. For example the one from my pentium 2 makes no noise when the computer starts up but it stars to increase after a while, and even though it's not super loud, I hear it and it annoys me.

I do remember getting a heatsink for my K6-2 that had a pretty quiet fan as well.

I looked up the Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 3 holy moly that thing looks alien.. never seen a fan like that, haha.

I wonder about getting a small 1U all copper cooler. Those are one of the only options I've found, but I was hoping for a big chunk of copper. I suppose the small size would probably be as good as a larger chunk of Alu but still. I guess I could get one of those and then find a quiet fan to stick on top of it.

Kind of expensice tho https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?I … =9SIA85V3R95434

and then another $15 for a noctua fan.

Neco wrote:

I looked up the Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 3 holy moly that thing looks alien.. never seen a fan like that, haha.

It even kept my Barton 3200+ nice and cool 😀
And on top of that (and also due to the design of the fan of the HSF), its much harder to have it clog up the top of the heatsink with dust, so it requires very little maintenance.

And it's a bit better at cooling compared to the stock sA AMD HSF (I was using the copper one with lots of fins very tightly packed together), it's very quiet and (also important) very cheap!

I ended up getting like 12 of em 🤣!

The only downsides I could see why some people may not like em very much, is that it wont help you overclock that Barton as good as some of the really heavy duty sA HSFs and the mounting mechanism takes a bit to get used to. It's also a matter of personal preference.

I've used a single all-copper HSF (also 5cm I think, kinda the same size as the CPU socket itself) and afaict it did cool a little bit better. But I did end up swapping the loudish and kinda thick fan for a more silent one. And the mounting clip of the HSF was kinda large, making it harder to swap memopry modules around.

It's too bad the only sources are international. I don't want to have to deal with the extra shipping, the customs, and the wait time

Tetrium wrote:

Deksor wrote:

2x multipliers on k6-2 and later have been hardwired to 6x, so this is normal (66*6=400). Using lower or higher would work correctly

Just to add a bit of extra info: The 6x multi was made available for the K6-2 with CXT core, so maybe the K6-2 preceding CXT (original Chomper) still used it as 2x.

Yes, that's how it's implemented on my Chomper based K6-2 350.

Neco wrote:

It's too bad the only sources are international. I don't want to have to deal with the extra shipping, the customs, and the wait time

Well I do have other sources than ebay (in fact I almost never bought anything from it) and you can actually find things for cheaper. However you have to be really patient and invest some more time in it than just look at listings and buy directly from it. But sometimes instead of paying like 50$ for ONE pice of hardware, you can actually have tons of them for the same price (or even cheaper sometimes)

Deksor wrote:

Neco wrote:

It's too bad the only sources are international. I don't want to have to deal with the extra shipping, the customs, and the wait time

Well I do have other sources than ebay (in fact I almost never bought anything from it) and you can actually find things for cheaper. However you have to be really patient and invest some more time in it than just look at listings and buy directly from it. But sometimes instead of paying like 50$ for ONE pice of hardware, you can actually have tons of them for the same price (or even cheaper sometimes)

^This.

And don't always be too picky. It's not like I got all those GF MX cards because I was specifically looking for them, but because I saw a second hand PC which I suspected had an interesting motherboard or other interesting stuff for like €7,50 or saw an ad for something, have a nice chat with the seller and was given some amazing stuff (like 16MB 30p modules 😁). So it's definitely about patience, but another is to recognize opportunities and play your cards well.

And if you are given some stuff that you really don't want (like maybe old printers?) then just discard them later 😜

edit: And btw, I never had to beg. Don't beg. It's annoying 😵

Welp. The PC case I was getting off a friend turned out to be a Dell Inspirion, micro ATX tower which was much too short for my ATX board.

So.. the hunt continues on ebay I guess.

It's got an Athlon II x2 in it, and some SATA stuff so maybe I can use it for a late era gaming box with my 8800GTS 512MB if that card still works and if I can bring the system back to life.

Or maybe I'll see about using it as an NAS or something, idk... options are limited....

Do you have any thrift stores where they sell broken..err I mean "untested" old computers?
You could actually just buy a couple of those for the case itself and view the inside parts all as a bonus 😜

Nope. I been to like half a dozen in my area. nada. zip. zilch

If it comes down to it I'll buy a cheap ATX tower off Newegg or Amazon or something. Really trying to find something authentic to the era though, desktops are so hard to find for a good price 🙁

Did get me a K63+ tho 🤣

Neco wrote:

Like many people I regret not saving all the computers I pieced together growing up, so now I'm trying to get back into things. […]
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Like many people I regret not saving all the computers I pieced together growing up, so now I'm trying to get back into things.

I can't do this all in one go, so I'm looking to pick things up a piece at a time when I can find them cheap (risky I know).
old XT/AT cases seem especially hard or expensive to find and not much luck trying to source locally. So I'll settle for something in that style if its easier to acquire.

Right now my aim is to set up a middle of the road type of computer. I jumped straight from a 486 (33Mhz I think) to a Cyrix MII PR233 back in the day so I don't know much about early Pentiums and stuff as they were still too pricey for me to get my hands on. I'd like to build a Pentium based machine though, for running old DOS games and maybe some early Windows95/98 stuff.

Well, what games? You say "old DOS games" and I don't know if you mean "old" BECAUSE it is DOS, or if you mean "early DOS games" as in games made in the earlier part of the DOS era (say more 80s games compared to 90s).

Neco wrote:

CPU Is there a particular chip I might want? A particular motherboard? For DOS obviously I would like to be able to slow the […]
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CPU
Is there a particular chip I might want? A particular motherboard? For DOS obviously I would like to be able to slow the chip down, I'd prefer to do it all in hardware if possible via multiplier / cache disabling, etc. If the multiplier can be controlled via sofotware that is a bonus. I don't mind going for a higher class machine if its easier to do with that, but I don't want to end up with something that is still too fast even if slowed down.
I have had an original Pentium MMX in mind since they seem to be very cheap at the moment (cheaper than 486 gear!). Just not sure if I want to go with a 75/90/133/166/233 Mhz etc.. At what point do I need to worry about using a good cooler + thermal compound? IIRC I never used compound on my PR233, it was just some hand-tightened mounting system that went directly onto the chip.
RAM

Again depends on the games. And for old games you don't need to worry too much about early Pentium FDIV bugs (particularly in 60-90MHz and maybe 100MHz also) but I'd still recommend avoiding a chip with that bug if possible.

Edit: Oh forgot to mention heatsink. Well I've seen a lot of bad advice about this in general (I don't mean in this thread or on this forum, just on the internet in general). Lots of people will tell you stuff like "don't bother unless you run above ___ MHz and you do ____ with your computer." The fact of the matter is that the cooler you keep your chip, the longer it will last, period. Even if you're not getting up to Tjunction (not sure if they called it that on earlier CPUs but either way). Look up "electromigration." And ALWAYS use the best heatsink you can fit that is reasonably affordable (don't spend $200 on Ebay for "the best" just because someone decided they should be paid $200 for an obsolete hunk of metal) and the best fan you can fit that is quiet enough. I don't care what CPU it is. I don't care even if it were a 386. Put a heatsink on it. Glue one on with thermal epoxy if you have to. Always always always heatsink your CPUs.

And do use quality thermal compound, not so much because it has better performance (it does but only VERY slightly). More because cheap stuff can dry out over time. Heck I had some cheap no-brand thermal paste dry out in literally about 1 year one time on a PC I built for a friend (using all new parts that he bought). I switched to Arctic Alumina at that time and the same tube of compound literally lasted me for the next 5 or so years and never once dried out. AS5 is good as others have mentioned; ThermalRight stuff is also good, as is Gelid. IC Diamond is good but harder to apply. Arctic Cooling (not the same as Arctic Silver) MX* is also good. There are more beyond this. You may find AS5 in local stores, though, which is nice. I don't buy AS5 except when I need it locally simply because there are equally good options that cost a couple bucks less, but it's a solid choice.

Neco wrote:

Will any old RAM do? As long as its EDO or w/e is required. I will likely buy a set together and not individual sticks in any case. Anything to look out for? I don't really care about playing with memory timings and all that to be honest, unless its going to improve stability and help prevent crashes or something. I am less about the tinkering and overclocking these days and more about a simple, enjoyable experience.

If you ask me, tweaking timings is just as important as overclocking, but mostly any RAM should be fine if it's fast enough. Not all boards even work well with EDO. You can find some super 7 (and maybe original socket 7) boards with 168-pin SDRAM (PC100, PC133 etc.).

Neco wrote:

Motherboard
I'm not sure what to look for in a motherboard. I don't even remember the model of my first Socket 7 motherboard, all I remember was it was an Epox board. I think there is a certain model of ASUS mobo that seems to be prized around here?? P5A ??

Whatever you can find for cheap that has the compatibility you need as far as number of ISA slots, number of PCI slots, AGP slot (some 7 boards do have this - ALi Aladdin V and Via Apollo MVP3 can, and SiS might have a chipset supporting it as well). Having unlocked BIOS options for stuff like cache is also good. If you end up with a board without many options, hopefully the BIOS can be modded by a free program like CBROM or MODBIN to enable some additional options.

Neco wrote:

I'm not concerned with ancient ancient games (if I needed to I could try moslo for those) but mainly the DOS / Early Windows era from the 90s which featured lots of big colorful VGA graphics, etc. Eventually I'd put a Voodoo2 SLI setup in the machine. I have one I bought right after 3Dfx went tits up (bought it more to have one as a collector, since my old one died). But I'll probably buy an SLI set or something down the line.

For standard video I am thinking of picking up an S3 Virge type PCI card. maybe one with 4MB of RAM. I never really owned any high end 2D cards but this seems to be a good choice.

OK that sounds fine to me. I mean I'm not sure if an s3 virge is good for Windows 9x as I haven't tried that but overall people have good DOS compatibility with s3 cards (I always had Cirrus and Trident cards in the past so I'm not that familiar with s3 stuff personally).

Neco wrote:

Monitor
Are there any pitfalls to using a modern LED/LCD/IPS display? Does it need to be 4:3? I will likely just do that if I can get away with it. As long as the monitor doesn't do anything crazy like try to stretch the image, etc.
I've got an old 19" Samsung 1280x1024 LCD I could probably use. Not too sure on the quality of its DSub input though.

Many newer LCDs won't sync to low-res modes or odd refresh rates, but if you have one old enough to still be that resolution, you MIGHT be OK. 1280x1024 is literally one of the worst resolutions you can buy in a screen, though. The aspect ratio is waaaay off.

Neco wrote:

I've got a sound card (SB16 CT2290) that should be on the way soon.

Do NOT use this for DOS game music when you have a MIDI option - or at least get a DreamBlaster or similar wavetable card. For sound effects, as we all know, it's a highly compatible choice so no problems there unless your specific SB16 turns out to be one of the noisy ones that some people have issues with. You could also upgrade later to something like an AWE64 or AWE32 if you later find a good deal.

Neco wrote:

Power
Power Supply is an important question. I'm trying to get an ATX board if possible, but if I do end up with an AT board, are those ATX - AT power connection adapters you see on ebay, safe / worth it? It would make sourcing a PSU easier. As long as ATX/AT have the same footprint or w/e to go into a case I might go with that option. But mainly I'll be striving for an ATX motherboard. Although I am decidedly curious if it is possible to rig an ATX PSU to work with the old XT/AT style cases and their power switch relays ? Something to consider for when I can get around to acquiring one or two of them.
What wattage range am I looking for here anyway? 250W? I don't know much about how much power older PC's actually require.

If you're using a Pentium or AMD K6-x, you're looking at anywhere from around 5 to 15 watts. For PCI video cards, they are probably around the same range. AGP cards without power connectors can draw a little more. AGP cards with power connectors tend to put more load on 12v so make sure your PSU has good 12v if you use that. In general, older systems used more 5v than 12v so if you use a modern power supply, check the 5V current available, and also the combined 3.3v+5v power limit. That can be under 100w on some PSUs which is not good for a retro system. A lot of newer PSUs have combined 3.3+5v of around 130w which is not great but should be sufficient. Otherwise look for ATX12v 1.3 power supplies on Ebay. They are new enough to have relatively decent efficiency (generally from about 70% to a little under 80%; old AT PSUs would be lucky to hit 60% and would have much older capacitors that would be more likely to fail at any time). With many ATX 1.3 PSUs, the combined 3.3+5v power available should be around half to 2/3 of the total power, which is better for retro PCs than modern PSUs.

Neco wrote:

hard drives are kind of secondary concern.. I sure would like a nice humming drive with clicky heads, but may go with a compact flash solution to start with (cheap?). Same for floppies. I do have a floppy drive or two I should probably use to archive stuff I still have though. Optical should be easy enough to source (would like to pick up a drive from.

You can use larger drives with a drive overlay or a PCI card with its own BIOS like a SCSI card. Otherwise, well, some ss7 boards can should be able to go up to the 128GB limit. Some will have the 8GB limit. Downside of the drive overlay solution is that you can only read that drive on machines with the same drive overlay installed. Downside of the PCI card is that they may need drivers loaded in DOS to use. I know some cards do, though I don't have much detail on that because I was a very early adopter of most Windows versions from 95 up (including having used beta versions).