VOGONS


First post, by appiah4

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I'm about to start building an ATX Windows XP machine with components from circa 2002. I currently have a Tualatin Celeron 1300 with board and 512MB SDRAM as well as a Williamette Celeron 1700 with board and 512MB DDR RAM. I'm not sure which I should go for. IIRC Tualatin P3's basically destroyed Williamette P4's but that kind of got rectified with RD/DDR RAM later on, although it wasn't until Northwood that P4 actually managed to pull ahead? Anyway, regardless, how does that filter down to Celeron performance? The Tualatin has 256K cache compared to Williamette's 128K and that's just abysmal for both gaming and computing IMO - I can see a Williamette P4 eventually beating a P3 thanks to RAM and clockspeed but I think the Tualatin Celeron will always beat the Williamette Celeron? Obviously I want to do the Tualatin build and maybe one day replace the CPU with a Tualatin P3 1.1 or something, but some justification would be nice 😀

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Reply 1 of 51, by melbar

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Benchmark from year 2003:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/benchmark … hon,590-23.html

Celeron 1300 vs. 1700 - Benchmark: Q3, 3DMark2001 and UT2003

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Reply 2 of 51, by ODwilly

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If the Willamette Celeron is 478 based you should be able to swap in either a 400 or 533fsb Northwood, which would destroy both of them and be dirt cheap.

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Reply 3 of 51, by meljor

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The tualatin is way cooler and for retro i would choose that. Just use it with 133fsb for a nice total of 1733mhz and call it a day..

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Reply 4 of 51, by ODwilly

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For Windows XP they are both terrible. The Tualatin Celeron/ Tualatin P3 would both make great 2k or 98/se machines. For XP the Willamette Celeron upgraded to a Northwood P4 would be good. If you want a 2k or 98 machine 100% agreed with meljor, just run it at 133fsb and have fun.

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Reply 5 of 51, by Standard Def Steve

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The Tualatin Celeron is nothing like the P3-S. I have both; a Celeron-1400 and a P3-S @ 1575. In a few newer games the PIII ends up being over twice as fast as the Celeron. The only truly decent Celeron was the Mendocino.

The Willamette Celeron is also terribad. For a 2002 machine, you should either put in the fastest Northwood P4 your S478 board supports, or if you're feeling adventurous, try an Athlon XP/nForce build.

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Reply 6 of 51, by melbar

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Standard Def Steve wrote:

The only truly decent Celeron was the Mendocino.

The difference between the Celeron-Tualatin and the "-S" Tualatin is:

  • - higher FSB clock
    - Data prefech
    - cache latency

Be aware that the "-S" Tualatin was a server CPU. Not for the normal home market.

Regarding the market back in the day, i would compare the Celeron-Tualatin with a high-clocked P3-Coppermine or the P3-Tualatin (with 256kb cache).

Back in the day, the Celeron Mendocino compete with a PII, not with the PIII.

Difference Celeron 1300 vs. PIII-S 1400 (percentage - benchmarks: [ 1) Q3-A, 2) 3DMark2001 and 3) UT2003 ]
1) 34.5% 2) 29.0% 3) 31.7%

Difference Celeron 500 vs. PIII 500 (percentage - benchmarks: [ 1) Q3-A, 2) 3DMark2001 and 3) UT2003 ]
1) 37.2% 2) 22.9% 3) 20.6%

Standard Def Steve wrote:

In a few newer games the PIII ends up being over twice as fast as the Celeron.

For newer games you can then also go with late A-XP / P4 / A64...

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Reply 7 of 51, by Standard Def Steve

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melbar wrote:
The difference between the Celeron-Tualatin and the "-S" Tualatin is: […]
Show full quote

The difference between the Celeron-Tualatin and the "-S" Tualatin is:

  • - higher FSB clock
    - Data prefech
    - cache latency

And the -S Tualatin has twice the cache, which helps big time with some games. Newer games tend to receive the biggest boost. For example, in Doom 3 Timedemo1 my Celeron-1400 on a BX board gets 23.6 fps. PIII-S @ 1575 on a DDR board gets 49.3 fps.

melbar wrote:
Standard Def Steve wrote:

In a few newer games the PIII ends up being over twice as fast as the Celeron.

For newer games you can then also go with late A-XP / P4 / A64...

That's pretty much what I recommended in my first post. 😀

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Reply 8 of 51, by appiah4

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Thanks for the feedback. The issue for me is that a socket 478 build even though I have a board I can drop a Northwood P4 into is not half as interesting or nostalgic to me as a Socket 370 Pentium 3 build. I never liked or owned it and if I were to do a 2.8ghz northwood P4 or similar build I would just doa Via KT400 Barton 2500+ inatead.. so with Socket 370 I either use the C1300 or spend 20 buxks to buy a bargain P3S 1400 Ive found on sale somewhere.. I just might get the 1400 for a decent XP performance.. Bad idea?

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Reply 9 of 51, by melbar

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Alternatively, you can also buy a lower clocked Celeron-Tualatin (eg. 1000A) and overclock.

For example, i've got a Celeron 1000A for 5 bucks last year.

According to the values from 'tomshardware', i've posted already, the interpolated values (the italic typed values, they are estimated, be aware) show that you are not far away from a PIII-S (considering these older benchmarks).

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Reply 10 of 51, by Tetrium

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How do Tualeron and Tualatin-S compare to the vanilla Tualatin?

And has anyone actually found a non-S Tualatin that is faster than, say, 1.2GHz? I've never seen the Tualatin (non-S) 1400 in the wild.

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Reply 11 of 51, by meljor

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Tetrium wrote:

How do Tualeron and Tualatin-S compare to the vanilla Tualatin?

And has anyone actually found a non-S Tualatin that is faster than, say, 1.2GHz? I've never seen the Tualatin (non-S) 1400 in the wild.

I think tualeron @ 133fsb is same as p3 tualatin non -s (because fsb and cache would be the same). So Celeron 1000A @ 133fsb is equal to a p3 non-s clocked at 1333mhz.

But I agree, i think every p3 above 1200mhz is a p3-s but i could be wrong. I think normal p3 stopped at 1133mhz and from there p3-s took over.

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Reply 12 of 51, by Jade Falcon

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Dumb question, but why Celeron? If you have a Tualatin board why not go piii? And if you have a Williamette board why not go for a p4?

Out of the two I go for the Williamette only because I find it abit more interesting.

Reply 13 of 51, by Tetrium

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meljor wrote:
Tetrium wrote:

How do Tualeron and Tualatin-S compare to the vanilla Tualatin?

And has anyone actually found a non-S Tualatin that is faster than, say, 1.2GHz? I've never seen the Tualatin (non-S) 1400 in the wild.

I think tualeron @ 133fsb is same as p3 tualatin non -s (because fsb and cache would be the same). So Celeron 1000A @ 133fsb is equal to a p3 non-s clocked at 1333mhz.

But I agree, i think every p3 above 1200mhz is a p3-s but i could be wrong. I think normal p3 stopped at 1133mhz and from there p3-s took over.

Normal P3, I suppose you meant the 256KB cache ones?) went at least to 1200MHz, as I checked my list and I should have a Tualatin 1200MHz one (only a single one and it's not a Tualeron nor the Tualatin-S). I could doublecheck if need be.
Pentium 3-S seemed to be all over the Pentium 3 1+GHz frequency 😜

It seems the same way with C3 🤣

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Reply 14 of 51, by nforce4max

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Is this system being built for speed or just for flavor/fun? I sometimes to odd ball and slow systems just for kicks. For speed just go along with other people in this thread are suggesting and get something that is well rounded.

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Reply 17 of 51, by appiah4

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Is the PIII-S 1400 anything rare? Because I can grab one for around $20. Should I? And is it compatible on all Tualatin boards?

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Reply 18 of 51, by melbar

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Not really rare, but already requested at market place that it costs ~20 to 30 bucks...

All Tualatin cores need a FC-PGA2 compatible socket 370, or you use a compatible slot-adapter for a slot-1 board.

It depends on you, when you compare the benchmarks i've already posted with ~30% to 35% speed increase. Then you can answer which games you play and if it is worth to spend 20$ for the better performace... 😎

Reply 19 of 51, by gerwin

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meljor wrote:

But I agree, i think every p3 above 1200mhz is a p3-s but i could be wrong. I think normal p3 stopped at 1133mhz and from there p3-s took over.

I found a picture of a 1400MHz one (SL64W):
http://chook.x86-guide.com/en/collection/Inte … pu-no10561.html

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