VOGONS


First post, by Jed118

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So a visit to a prof's office yielded this:

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1qlCAh5h.jpg

It has been a long time since I've seen a drive like this, and even longer since I worked with one (grade 7, mid 90s) and even then I seemed to remember that the drive is paired with a controller card.

Some more specs on this 20Mb masterpiece:

http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/hard-drives-hdd/m … -MFM-ST412.html

I might put this into my 286 build (albeit at 16 MHz it might be crippling it a little - 15ms seek time ugh!) It has been over 20 years since I played with these drives - Can I use any MFM controller for this drive, for example, one like this?

http://allegro.pl/isa-kontroler-mfm-gwarancja … 5869899498.html

Bloody cables cost more than the controller - I threw SO MANY of these out as a teenager too.

In any case, what does it take to make the card talk to the drive? I seem to remember some debug commands (not sure how I did that at age 11 in the 90s with no internet access - I must have *gasp* read the DOS manual or something) and that it didn't always work.

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Reply 1 of 7, by Deksor

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I guess you could use it though I heared that some hard drives never worked on any other controller card than the one they came with, though I only have one MFM hdd and I never tested it with another controller card. However I also often heared that if you want them to work with each other, you need to low level format the HDD. That's were debug command you remember comes in : these cards had a rom chip that had a little program that you could execute from MS-DOS with the debug command to low level format the HDD. Then, if you're lucky, you should be able to access it from DOS and then it will be the regular stuff : FDISK.exe then "format c:" and the hdd will work.

One thing to note is that if your drive doesn't work at all or acts oddly, there might be a chance that the platters are stuck because the grease in the bearings became old.

The hard drive of my 8088 (my only MFM hdd ...) made the computer unable to start (the PSU refused to start up when the HDD was plugged in) because the tantalum caps were shorting out. Once replaced, it came to life, did something that could be considered as a seek test and then ... stopped. I restarted many times and once it came magically to life ! ... but once shut down, again when I tried to use it, it was doing the seek test and re-stopped ... after a while it came back to life again. At this point I thought "I heared that running them for a while was spreading again the grease in the bearings, made the metal of the platters to expand which would make it to be read better, etc ... So yeah, fuck it, I'm going to make it run for hours". After a trial of 1H, I tried it again for many more hours and what was my surprise when I restarted the HDD ... to see it doing it's stuff and keeping itself on. Even the sound it was making changed after that long time where it was spinning for nothing 🤣

One last important thing to test if you manage to format it is to check it for bad sectors. Apparently mine came out from the factory without any (just like yours, it's written on the label), but after checking it with scandisk, there was actually one bad sector. It's the only one so it's not bothering me. However if you're lucky enough, the bad sectors may not be permanent : one some newer HDDs I've got, after multiple low level format, some of the bad sectors disappeared completely, I've had the same thing with some floppy disks. So it should be worth it (though they might come back too ...)

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Reply 2 of 7, by konc

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It won't work with any controller, it needs a specific interface. Check carefully which interface your exact model is made for (you linked to the "plus" model which uses a different one than the "non plus").
Also for ST-506/ST-412 era disks don't expect anything near 15ms seek time, more like 60 I'd say. You'll be severely crippling anything you put this in. Well yeah play with it, hear it take off 😀 but it was really made for 8 bit systems so for an AT everyone ends up using an IDE disk as a permanent solution. Give it a try though, revisit things like calling the routing from debug to low-format it, setting the interleave etc. It's a fun and noisy trip!

Reply 3 of 7, by krivulak

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Well, the drive has been opened, it doesn't have to matter in these old drives, but for sure it can have headcrash or stuck spindle or something else. Why else would somebody open it and then close it back?

Reply 4 of 7, by Jed118

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Deksor wrote:

One thing to note is that if your drive doesn't work at all or acts oddly, there might be a chance that the platters are stuck because the grease in the bearings became old.

This - I recently got a 386 from 1988 and the hard drive didn't spin up - a quick, flat whack against the desk fixed that 😉

krivulak wrote:

Well, the drive has been opened, it doesn't have to matter in these old drives, but for sure it can have headcrash or stuck spindle or something else. Why else would somebody open it and then close it back?

I thought about that too, but the screws seem to have no wear at all. I'll examine this closely before I go out and buy controllers for it.

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Reply 5 of 7, by krivulak

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Jed118 wrote:

a quick, flat whack against the desk fixed that 😉

You did WHAT? Jesus Christ, tell me this is a lie...

If you have stuck platter, you have to grab the harddrive on sides of the spindle, rotate it fast one way and when you can't go anymore you have to change swiftly rotation orientation. It unsticks the spindle with inertia and does the least harm. In oppose to your way of unsticking the spindle, which is the most harmful...

Reply 6 of 7, by Jed118

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I've used the whack technique quite a bit in the 90s at a computer store I worked at. Always worked: A senior tech showed me how. You don't need a lot of force, and it has to be a flat, dry impact, to spread it around evenly. Months of use and several passes of NDD and no issues.

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Reply 7 of 7, by Deksor

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Like I said, mine was spinning up, but the problem was that it probably didn't reach it's maximum speed ... I guess that you should run them for a while, but you may know more about this than I do ^^

Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative