Looks like a fun PC!

Just my 2 cents:

- AWE64 is a good choice for soundcard - very good compatibility. I was going to suggest upgrading that soundcard anyway

- A good video card is very important for VESA games. DOS games were notoriously fiddly when it came to VESA support and I agree - Trident isn't the best. I had Trident in one of my PC's and it had a lot of compatibility problems (ugh, I still get headaches thinking of how much trouble I had getting Virtual Pool to run in VESA mode). Since you don't have PCI or VLB, you'll have to go ISA and those cards are a lot more expensive and also less powerful. The Tseng ET4000 or Cirrus Logic are two good choices I find.

As for reliable parts ... I think that's a term that doesn't exist when it comes to stuff this old. HOWEVER. I think it's a good idea to be on the lookout for someone that sells off their old brand PC "in working order" from back then. The biggest brands usually had very good hardware and if you can find the right number, you can find out exactly what parts are inside the machine provided they didn't tinker with it. That's how I got all the parts to built my P166 - by butchering several old IBM PCs to make one single great one with all the best parts. I have a soft spot for IBM stuff because their PCs back then were nearly unbreakable and very versatile whereas the "clones" my friends had, had quite a lot of cheap crap inside (especially the PSU's). Up till 5 years ago, it wasn't all that hard to find these old PCs on second hand sites because some companies still used them for operating old machinery or for running ancient software but it seems now it changed to Windows 95/98 machines with few 386/486 machines coming up for sale anymore.

This monitor and this case are looking gorgeous !

I can't really speak for the parts that came in bubble wrap. If you knew how were stored some cards when I bought them 🤣

Most of my hardware comes from garage sales. The most recent haul I've gotten was 10 voodoo 3 3000 + several NIC, a sound card and other stuff. All these cards were stored randomly in plastic boxes. Some of them are missing 1 or 2 caps. Other times, cards are just put on the ground ... But they're rarely dead. Most of the time, dead cards I get are cards that are different kind of corrosion (why did they use varta batteries, why ... :'( ) or big physical damages (cut traces, etc) but even cards stored in terrible conditions are working most of the time for me as long as they aren't physically damaged.

You should buy one of these "POST card" to check if your other boards are really dead or not. Once I had socket 7 motherboard that didn't work at all but it still displayed the same POST code. I was about to give up when I tried to update the bios. Turns out the ROM chip was dead and now it has been replaced, this board works like a charm. Another time I "repaired" a socket 775 motherboard because it wasn't POSTing at all. Using that card I saw that it ended up on the same code every time. I googled the code and people said that the board could be stuck when the CMOS battery dies on that board. All I needed was to remove the GPU and RAM, then put one stick of ram in the last slot, then puting the GPU, etc and following the procedure, the board came back to life !

Also once I had a 486 motherboard that worked oddly and had a trident card. It wouldn't POST with that card. Then I checked with a "realtek" (yup apparently they have made video cards at some point 🤣) and it POSTed. But it's behaviour was strange. Then I tried VLB cards and none of them worked in that board even though they worked in another computer. Next I tried the trident card that wouldn't work in that 486 in another computer and that card worked like a charm. So in fact that board just had a problem and all these cards were 100% functionnal. I never figured out what was the problem of that board though

Thanks guys 😀

I had been on the look out for an ET4000 video card, but they're super expensive, and even more so in the ISA slot - I'm looking at 100-150USD which is way outside what I'm willing to pay for this stuff.

However I found a Cirrus Logic CL-GD5428 for much less, so I snapped that up.

Interestingly the benchmark at VGA museum has it rated on par with a revision of the card I have (not sure which revision mine is):
http://www.vgamuseum.info/images/vlask/bench/diaggraphic.png

It'll be interesting to see how they compare!

I didn't even know about the POST test ISA cards. They look very useful and they're extremely cheap. Thanks for that.

ceeker wrote:

Thanks guys :) […]
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Thanks guys 😀

I had been on the look out for an ET4000 video card, but they're super expensive, and even more so in the ISA slot - I'm looking at 100-150USD which is way outside what I'm willing to pay for this stuff.

However I found a Cirrus Logic CL-GD5428 for much less, so I snapped that up.

Interestingly the benchmark at VGA museum has it rated on par with a revision of the card I have (not sure which revision mine is):
http://www.vgamuseum.info/images/vlask/bench/diaggraphic.png

It'll be interesting to see how they compare!

I didn't even know about the POST test ISA cards. They look very useful and they're extremely cheap. Thanks for that.

Well it's not so much about performance on benchmarks, as it is game support. Benchmarks won't do you much good when your card isn't getting detected properly! Games such as Need for Speed (okay, perhaps a little too powerful for your PC but still 😉 ) are very very picky about which card you have.

ceeker wrote:

Thanks guys 😀

I had been on the look out for an ET4000 video card, but they're super expensive, and even more so in the ISA slot - I'm looking at 100-150USD which is way outside what I'm willing to pay for this stuff.

I don't know where you're looking at prices, but if I check Ebay, the last 3 sold were between $20 and $50, not even half of your stated minimum price of $100. Or am I perhaps missing something here?

red_avatar wrote:

As for reliable parts ... I think that's a term that doesn't exist when it comes to stuff this old. HOWEVER. I think it's a good idea to be on the lookout for someone that sells off their old brand PC "in working order" from back then.

For years one of my favorite ways to acquire new parts, is by getting complete systems. I can't be too picky about the contents and often don't even know the internals, but hardware rarely gets damaged while inside a system and I picked up on that.
Separate parts that are being sold could've been anywhere, who knows what their histories are.

And welcome aboard Ceeker, enjoy your stay 😀

red_avatar wrote:

Well it's not so much about performance on benchmarks, as it is game support. Benchmarks won't do you much good when your card isn't getting detected properly! Games such as Need for Speed (okay, perhaps a little too powerful for your PC but still 😉 ) are very very picky about which card you have.

Fair enough. I did notice a weird issue with the Trident card I have, in that if I use my 17" monitor (too big for this era anyway) it would randomly decide to boot in monochrome. Any SVGA era games would work fine but anything else would be black and white. The smaller monitor is fine though. Weird.

Tetrium wrote:

I don't know where you're looking at prices, but if I check Ebay, the last 3 sold were between $20 and $50, not even half of your stated minimum price of $100. Or am I perhaps missing something here?

Just ebay - there are PCI ones for that price, but these are the ISA ones I can currently see:
$286 USD
$121 USD, has DSP chips as well, so probably industrial use?
$136.82 USD
$166.82 USD

You're right though, there are some sold ones that have gone for cheaper, so I might just have to play the waiting game. Unless it's filtering out ones that won't deliver internationally? I'm in Australia.

And welcome aboard Ceeker, enjoy your stay 😀

Thanks!

I did notice a weird issue with the Trident card I have, in that if I use my 17" monitor (too big for this era anyway) it would randomly decide to boot in monochrome.

Was getting it too when using some Trident 8900/9000 cards with an LG 17" TFT, at first I thought they were bad. I had more consistent (colorful) results with an Acer AL1715, which is way more compatible with whatever I've thrown at it, be it ISA, VLB, PCI or PCI Express.

Ouch, I think that Trident card may have died on me - was playing Warcraft and the game froze, now I get 8 beeps on POST (AMI BIOS) - that's a video error, right? Good thing I bought the other card...

Tetrium wrote:

For years one of my favorite ways to acquire new parts, is by getting complete systems. I can't be too picky about the contents and often don't even know the internals, but hardware rarely gets damaged while inside a system and I picked up on that.
Separate parts that are being sold could've been anywhere, who knows what their histories are.

Yeah you're right - that's what I was trying to convey. Loose parts are often scavenged from discarded PC's - I know some people go to the skip to look for PCs they can dismantle but they only very briefly test these parts and they often get handled rather roughly.

Cool setup! Good on you live in the area where crt monitors are still seen in the wild!

1. My older cards fail stored in antistatic and in dehumidified plastic box.. Some people say cards like when you use them and fail when you store them for too long 😀. Maybe ask seller if they ship in antistatic bag + sturdy box before buying.. this way you'll get at least some peace of mind and punish with negative reviews if they lie.
2. Cirrus Logic is better than Trident, but i would only upgrade if absolutely necessary to play something lengthy so you get a good RoI. I don't as a rule buy stuff if I do't intend to spend > 60 hours with games which need this specific card.
3. Maybe make a list of games you want to play in the next year or two, then a list of cheap cards available on the market and cross check if all games work fine on this card? Maybe what you have is enough so no need to spend more.
4. No idea 🙁 I have a few and my hands tremble when I insert them because they snap easily. I have a dream of trying this method some day to produce standoffs and maybe even 486 heatsink holder to be able to attach modern quieter coolers, but I have waaaay too much on my plate already, so maybe in the next couple years I'll come back to this idea. Make some out of wood and wood glue maybe? idk!

ceeker wrote:

Just ebay - there are PCI ones for that price, but these are the ISA ones I can currently see: $286 USD $121 USD, has DSP chips […]
Show full quote

Tetrium wrote:

I don't know where you're looking at prices, but if I check Ebay, the last 3 sold were between $20 and $50, not even half of your stated minimum price of $100. Or am I perhaps missing something here?

Just ebay - there are PCI ones for that price, but these are the ISA ones I can currently see:
$286 USD
$121 USD, has DSP chips as well, so probably industrial use?
$136.82 USD
$166.82 USD

You're right though, there are some sold ones that have gone for cheaper, so I might just have to play the waiting game. Unless it's filtering out ones that won't deliver internationally? I'm in Australia.

And welcome aboard Ceeker, enjoy your stay 😀

Thanks!

The ones that sold, were these 3 (I'll add a description before the links go dead sometime in the future).
$40 ISA, $50 VLB, $20 ISA (a Diamond branded one).
I do have to add that these are USA $$, AU $$ are about a quarter cheaper according to ebay.
Btw, was this Tseng chip ever made into a PCI version? I can't remember, but it would've been one that I'd decline on bringing with me if I already was at the limits of what I could bring.

I have one of the PCI versions. AX32/p if I remember right. I can show a photo later if you want. I have not tested it too much to say if there is any benefit over VLB.

Edit: It is the ET4000/W32P. I realized now you probably wondered about the AX chip making it to PCI.

@ ceeker - nice build, keep the spirit up 😀

That is a nice looking system you have there!

I also had problems with bad parts- mainly motherboards- when I first began collecting. I stay away from boards that have been "tested to post" only because seriously- if they test to post there is zero reason imo to not test the ports, the drive controllers etc.

I prefer parts that are being sold by the original owners or by people who post photo's of the hardware in actual use. Even a motherboard can be tested on the bench to verify that the ports are working- and it is nothing to connect a hard drive on the bench to further test and prove out the functionality.

I have no problem taking a chance on some items if the price reflects the "not tested, sold for part or repair" disclaimer but I sure won't pay anything close to what I will for a reliably tested item. And that includes the inflated shipping costs that some sellers use to pad their profits.

You will learn the tell tale signs of an eBay seller who wishes to unload questionable parts quick enough!

JoeCorrado wrote:

You will learn the tell tale signs of an eBay seller who wishes to unload questionable parts quick enough!

If you have the space and the time, it can be a very lucrative job to save computers from the skip, taking them home to recover all the parts and testing them one by one. The market isn't too big, but there isn't all that much stuff on eBay to buy either - at least not locally in Europe anyway. Some parts that I would consider to be pretty common in the past, are hard to find these days and sell for €50+ or even more. In the end, it's a potential source of money that requires almost no investment except for your time and effort.

Maybe apart from the soundcard, (AWE64 is a good choice) I'm not sure how much will actually be gained squeezing out of what is still a 33Mhz system, As you said CPU is already your main bottle neck.
Thing is P2 makes good late dos gaming PC anyway, So anything that's unplayable on the 486 will work fine on the P2 anyway.

If your looking to spend your money on something, I'd look more into "enhancing" then upgrading, You got Win3x installed. Add a NIC and get networking going for file transfers! or maybe some kind of MIDI device. Gotek floppy drive makes life easy

Where to find parts? Gumtree can be good, Garage sales, and yeh ebay. I just think you have been unlucky with parts.

If you wanted to keep the AWE64 for the P2, Yamaha cards are cheep, plentiful and have true OPL chip that may be important if you play many adlib games and has pretty good Midi.
And there is Always GUS if you can find one and have the $$$