Definition of "Super Socket 7" \ VOGONS

Definition of "Super Socket 7"

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First post, by Tetrium

Posted on 2017-08-03, 14:36

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This has me bugging a little bit for several years now, which is kinda understandable as details are a bit vague on this.
Many people seem to think that Super Socket 7 simply means AGP + 100MHz FSB. But Super Socket 7 (I like to call it ss7) only means the FSB is 100MHz officially. The super is not due to the AGP port being present.

Now another thing is that (and please be mindful, I'm not trying to rant here, I just want definitive answers) I was looking for any official documentation about the definition of "Super Socket 7" and afaik this should've been AMD's department. But this definitional document is somehow eluding me (I can't find it).

So far all time-period reports seem to suggest I'm correct about the definition of Super Socket 7 being solely the FSB, NOT the presence or not of AGP.

Here's what I found so far during my little searching around.
First of all, AGP is being mentioned a lot from beginning 1998, but literally zero mentions of Super Socket 7.
SiS 5598 aug 1997
mentioning of AGP support (which SiS5598 does not have), but zero mention of Super 7
CPU world
For their next generation of processors Intel chose different socket type - slot 1, and completely abandoned socket 7. Luckily, Intel competitors continued to support socket 7 architecture, and they even enhanced it by creating a "Super socket 7" specification by adding support for 100 MHz bus frequency, backside L2 cache and frontside L3 cache.
NO mention of AGP, but does mention 100MHz FSB.
Mentioning of Super Socket 7 as a CPU interface, with AGP being mentioned separately (along with the PCI and ISA slots).
The first Socket 7 board with AGP (CTRL+F reveals ZERO hits when looking for the word "super")

I think some people would consider the presence of SDRAM as being a requirement for a board being Super Socket 7, but it is not the case (as there are s7 boards with only SDRAM and no 100MHz FSB....or AGP).

But these are only time-period indications. Is there any official document that reveals teh ultimate truth about what Super 7 is? Anyone know the answer to life (of Super 7)?

Lets bust this mystery once and for all 😀

Last edited by Tetrium on 2017-08-04, 01:32. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 1 of 59, by lazibayer

Posted on 2017-08-03, 14:54

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I think the decisive factor is having official support for 100MHz bus. Strictly speaking FSB was invented along with pentium pro and not really a socket7/super7 thing.
Some super7 chipsets, such as MVP4 and SiS530, lack the support for external AGP port but they still count as super7.
One board that is close to being super7 is SP98AGP. It has 100MHz bus, external AGP and SDRAM, but the SiS 5591 chipset does not officially support 100MHz.

Reply 2 of 59, by meljor

Posted on 2017-08-03, 16:31

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''super' socket 7 is like socket 7 on ''steroids'' and that is basicly the higher fsb.

The higher fsb makes it faster and/or a better overclocker, the combination with sdram support and especially AGP makes it a lot more versatile and for me really ''super 7''.
Atx/usb/ps2 or udma66 can make it even more attractive and brings it up the standard of a good p2/p3 board.

If you only look at 100mhz fsb then there is no really big difference if you take a good 430TX/HX board and clock it at 75/83fsb. Take the 430TX/HX with a k6-3 at 450 (6x 75fsb) and it will not be that much slower compared to an Ali/Via board and that cpu at 4,5x 100fsb. It will also have the sdram support in the case of a TX but it will NOT support AGP.

So (for me) it is the combination that really makes it a super 7 board.

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Reply 3 of 59, by Jade Falcon

Posted on 2017-08-03, 16:34

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SSK7 is a socket 7 system with support for 100fsb, or that's how I look at it.

Reply 4 of 59, by leileilol

Posted on 2017-08-03, 20:39

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Considering stability in general, i've only read it as "Subpar Socket 7" 🙁

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Reply 5 of 59, by meljor

Posted on 2017-08-03, 21:17

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leileilol wrote:
Considering stability in general, i've only read it as "Subpar Socket 7" 🙁

Hopefully based on your own experience with lots and lots of boards?

Mine: Have seen a lot of other boards including slot1 and s370 that were less stable. No big problems, just use the right agp drivers.

Reply 6 of 59, by gdjacobs

Posted on 2017-08-03, 22:59

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lazibayer wrote:

Some super7 chipsets, such as MVP4 and SiS530, lack the support for external AGP port but they still count as super7.

They expose AGP features for the internal graphics cores including a data bus segregated from the rest of the PCI peripherals, thus they technically do support AGP. You're correct that it's not external.

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Reply 7 of 59, by r.cade

Posted on 2017-08-04, 00:38

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It's just a nickname. There is no "official definition". It is what happened to it after Intel stopped using it. 😀

Reply 8 of 59, by shamino

Posted on 2017-08-04, 01:04

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I've never noticed anybody claim that the term "Super Socket 7" technically requires more than 100FSB support. But as a practical matter, AGP and SDRAM support are characteristic of super 7 motherboards. That could cause people to phrase things in a way that might appear to imply they're part of the definition.

I'm fine with it being an imprecisely defined nickname for post-Intel socket 7 though.

Reply 9 of 59, by nforce4max

Posted on 2017-08-04, 03:22

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The way I see it is that SS7 is having SDR ram, 100mhz fsb, and support for K6-2/K6-3/K6-2+/K6-3+. The agp slot is a bonus but not required though it certainly is the cherry on top making for lower cost builds possible until recently. The agp-less boards are often pretty cheap if one knows how to search around and they offer everything needed for most retro builds.

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Reply 10 of 59, by lazibayer

Posted on 2017-08-04, 04:14

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nforce4max wrote:
The way I see it is that SS7 is having SDR ram, 100mhz fsb, and support for K6-2/K6-3/K6-2+/K6-3+. The agp slot is a bonus but not required though it certainly is the cherry on top making for lower cost builds possible until recently. The agp-less boards are often pretty cheap if one knows how to search around and they offer everything needed for most retro builds.

Is there any boards with 100MHz bus but no SDR support? Except industrial and SBCs...

Reply 11 of 59, by Gamecollector

Posted on 2017-08-04, 19:52

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Technically - 83/75 MHz motherboards with the 5/2 divider are SS7 too.

Asus P4P800 SE/Pentium4 3.2E/2 Gb DDR400B,
Radeon HD3850 Agp (Sapphire), Catalyst 14.4 (XpProSp3).
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Reply 12 of 59, by meljor

Posted on 2017-08-05, 02:48

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Gamecollector wrote:
Technically - 83/75 MHz motherboards with the 5/2 divider are SS7 too.

I do not agree as those boards usually have an official support for only 66mhz fsb. It doesn't even matter that companies like Cyrix made 75fsb cpu's : it is an overclocked setting on those boards.

Socket 7 : up to 66fsb
Nice socket 7: up to 75fsb
Sweet socket 7: up to 83fsb
Super socket 7: up to 100fsb
Mega socket 7: up to 100+ fsb

😎

Reply 13 of 59, by lazibayer

Posted on 2017-08-05, 03:56

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meljor wrote:
I do not agree as those boards usually have an official support for only 66mhz fsb. It doesn't even matter that companies like C […]
Show full quote
Gamecollector wrote:
Technically - 83/75 MHz motherboards with the 5/2 divider are SS7 too.

I do not agree as those boards usually have an official support for only 66mhz fsb. It doesn't even matter that companies like Cyrix made 75fsb cpu's : it is an overclocked setting on those boards.

Socket 7 : up to 66fsb
Nice socket 7: up to 75fsb
Sweet socket 7: up to 83fsb
Super socket 7: up to 100fsb
Mega socket 7: up to 100+ fsb

😎

Had AMD stretched socket7 harder we might witness the birth of mega socket 7: 133MHz bus, AGP 4x, no onboard cache, trailing behind Intel's 815 chipset. But instead AMD pursued EV6 bus and leaped ahead of Intel.

Last edited by lazibayer on 2017-08-05, 17:53. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 14 of 59, by amadeus777999

Posted on 2017-08-05, 08:48

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From what I can remember...
-100 MHz+ FSB
-AGP support
-low price(when compared to Intel's new flagship product)

Reply 15 of 59, by meljor

Posted on 2017-08-05, 19:16

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lazibayer wrote:
meljor wrote:
I do not agree as those boards usually have an official support for only 66mhz fsb. It doesn't even matter that companies like C […]
Show full quote
Gamecollector wrote:
Technically - 83/75 MHz motherboards with the 5/2 divider are SS7 too.

I do not agree as those boards usually have an official support for only 66mhz fsb. It doesn't even matter that companies like Cyrix made 75fsb cpu's : it is an overclocked setting on those boards.

Socket 7 : up to 66fsb
Nice socket 7: up to 75fsb
Sweet socket 7: up to 83fsb
Super socket 7: up to 100fsb
Mega socket 7: up to 100+ fsb

😎

Had AMD stretched socket7 harder we might witness the birth of mega socket 7: 133MHz bus, AGP 4x, no onboard cache, trailing behind Intel's 815 chipset. But instead AMD pursued EV6 bus and leaped ahead of Intel.

Yeah....it's a shame as i really like the platform.

Reply 16 of 59, by feipoa

Posted on 2017-08-05, 22:12

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Has anyone found a regular socket 7 board which had an unofficial 100 MHz setting? And did it work?

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Reply 17 of 59, by infiniteclouds

Posted on 2017-08-05, 23:25

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How about a S/S7 Board that has AGP, can do 100 FSB, but can also do BELOW 66.. ?

Reply 18 of 59, by lazibayer

Posted on 2017-08-06, 01:09

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infiniteclouds wrote:
How about a S/S7 Board that has AGP, can do 100 FSB, but can also do BELOW 66.. ?

ASUS P5A-B can do 60MHz.

Reply 19 of 59, by fitzpatr

Posted on 2017-08-06, 02:36

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The Via VP3 chipset is a good indicator that AGP was not only available before Super Socket 7, but not what delineated Super7.

Additionally, in this contemporary article, AGP and Super7 are considered separate modifiers.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/129

Super7, then, in everything that I've seen, implies a Socket 7 board or processor which uses a 100MHz Bus.

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