Have you checked with MEM /C
to see if everything you're trying to load in upper memory is in fact loading in upper memory?

This is why I use QEMM.

First I install everything low. memory be damned, just get the hardware working. Then I run QEMM and it will get me as much ram as possible under 640k. Always works for me.

The final version of QEMM is actually quite reliable in my experience. Too bad it took them so long to get it right that it was pretty much irrelevant by the time they did.

About System 1:

- Are these config/autoexec from DOS or Windows? Is it a standalone DOS or Windows included? If you're booting from a standalone DOS, I'd try to make it load their own controllers, not Windows ones.
- Keep in mind that Windows autoexec/config are different that the ones used when booted in DOS mode. That files are stored elsewhere, so maybe you're modifying Windows 98 behaviour, not DOS. If you're modifying Windows 98 autoexec/config, I think that the CD driver is unneeded for Windows 98 sessions.
- Are BUFFERSHIGH and FILESHIGH supported?
- LASTDRIVE=Z may be excessive for a DOS machine (but maybe not for a Windows 98). DOS reserves some bytes of conventional memory for every drive defined, so LASTDRIVE=E or F will save some bytes. Put a lower value depending on how many drives are you using, both physical and networked. I like to have one or two "spares" for virtual drives (= 0cd and those CD emulators).
- BTW... I guess that you'll need more memory if you're using Windows 98 in that system. I'd put 64 Mb, or install Windows 95 instead of 98.

About System 2:
- Only a few games support CSP, so maybe it is not needed.
- Have you tried using MEMMAKER? Is included in DOS 6 and may be a good starting point for optimizations.

About both systems:

- Do you really need doskey and ANSI? You may load doskey manually if you need it on long DOS sessions. There are some ANSI device drivers that can be loaded from the prompt (and there was some utilities to load drivers from prompt, too).
- I see that you use MOUSE in system 1 and CTMOUSE in system 2. CTMOUSE usually is small than other drivers, so why don't you try to use it on both systems?
- The same applies to the CD-ROM driver. There are many drivers that needs more or less memory, but I don't remember which ones uses less. There should be a thread about it on this site.

The order in which you load your device drivers and tsr's will also impact on what you can fit into your upper memory blocks.
If you are also running Windows 9x, then rather create a start up (boot) menu configuration so that you can boot straight into DOS - refer How to create a boot (start up) menu under Windows 9x/ME

EMM386 does not have RAM parameter after it, so it won't create UMBs.

It is a matter of taste if you want to have the I=B000-B7FF there, I would not put it, as it disables monochrome video modes that have the framebuffer at B000-B7FF.

Jepael wrote:

EMM386 does not have RAM parameter after it, so it won't create UMBs.

It is a matter of taste if you want to have the I=B000-B7FF there, I would not put it, as it disables monochrome video modes that have the framebuffer at B000-B7FF.

Was just about to edit my post as my eye also caught that 😀.

You can use RAM I=B400-B7FF for slightly better compatibility and still some space for UMBs.

I pasted my own Config/Autoexec here before, in this post. I've been running with them almost unchanged for years on my Win98SE/DOS machine, and they give me ~620K of free RAM and compatibility with almost everything. Note that for DOS 6.22 or for non-Creative sound cards there should be some changes.

In anyway, after the config.sys and autoexec.bat files have been created by your restart in msdos mode, you can safely edit these files also under DOS. Just make sure you do not touch the lines that were obviously added by windows and windows will think of these files as untinkered and even update with all the corresponding changes you have made while in DOS mode. It is therefore recommended to make a shortcut to ms-dos mode on your desktop which you can edit to your hearts content.

Regardless of your contents in these files, windows will add a few lines at the start and end of both config.sys and autoexec.bat that you shouldnt change. You can - afterwards - add anything to your liking (even install Qemm), but just make sure that the lines added by windows stay untouched.

Ok lots of good questions, I'll try and answer.

First there was a typo. I have 64MB in the Win98 machine. 😀

1. System 1 (the Win 98/DOS machine) is booting directly into the DOS that came with Win 98 (command prompt from the menu)
2. I'm modifying the autoexec.bat and config.sys that are in the root c:\ directory.
3. Buffershigh and fileshigh are supported in 98, but I'm not sure about Win98 DOS. I'll change those back to just buffers and files. I'll also set Lastdrive to F.
4. ANSI I need, but I could live without doskey if I had to. How much memory do they take up anyway?
5. I know next to nothing about EMM386 parameters. Should I use that RAM parameter at all? If so I can change it I=B400-B7FF

Tempest wrote:

Buffershigh and fileshigh are supported in 98, but I'm not sure about Win98 DOS.

What's the difference?

Tempest wrote:

4. ANSI I need, but I could live without doskey if I had to. How much memory do they take up anyway?

DOSKey takes ~8KB. What games do you need ANSI.SYS for?

Tempest wrote:

5. I know next to nothing about EMM386 parameters. Should I use that RAM parameter at all? If so I can change it I=B400-B7FF

If you actually want EMM386 to create upper memory blocks (so you can move stuff there to free conventional memory), then yes, you should use RAM.

I need ANSI for some text adventures and terminal programs, but I could add that line to the .bat launcher for those programs I suppose. I didn't think ANSI took up that much memory.

Is there something similar to doskey I can use to repeat the last few commands with the up and down arrows that doesn't take up so much memory?

So for the EMM386 line, is the I=B400-B7FF switch ok, or do I need to add RAM to it (RAM I=B400-B7FF)?

First add the RAM parameter to EMM386 and see what you get. Keep in mind, it's a rare game that requires more than 600KB conventional memory. As long as you're around 610KB or so with EMM386, you should be fine.

I'm up to 572K with the RAM parameter. That's an improvement that's for sure.

Make that 576K if I get rid of DOSKEY and use CTMOUSE. I tried remming out ANSI.SYS but that didn't free up anything.

I still find it odd that 576K is the best I can get. Like I said, I used to have 596-610K free back in the day with a similar setup.

Interestingly on my 486 DOS 6.22 rig I get 615K free now. Why is the free memory so low on the Windows 98 setup with pretty much exactly the same hardware? Does Win98 eat up some free memory even though I'm in DOS?

Umbpci helped me to have enough for Ultima 7 - Serpent Isle and smartdrive, etc...
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/umbpci_e.html (but apparently not really for 486 PCs)

Tempest wrote:

Interestingly on my 486 DOS 6.22 rig I get 615K free now. Why is the free memory so low on the Windows 98 setup with pretty much exactly the same hardware? Does Win98 eat up some free memory even though I'm in DOS?

Run MEM /C/P and MEM /D/P to find out what's eating what.

dont use smartdrive - its eat 60-70 kbytes low/umb.