VOGONS


First post, by .legaCy

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Not looking for a build like the victorbart ultimate year 2000 build.
This is about one kind of a unresolved issue of my childhood,while i had to stick with my dad celeron 333 with crappy onboard video my friend had a pentium 800(i guess) with a video card that i don't really recall what it was, but it had 128MB of ram too.
Motherboards are quite difficult to find here, so i'm looking for a slot 1 with at least 1 isa slot.
My plans are to use one AWE64 for dos and one aureal vortex 2 for windows.
Slotkets are quite rare and expensive here.
Any consideration on the boards to be used with a coppermine? is there any coppermine that is slot 1?

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Reply 1 of 14, by blackmasked

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I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 CPUs.
Slot 1 CPU coolers are usually just good enough, you are limited to loud 40/50mm fan(s) and you could end up having clearance issues with memory, caps, etc.
I have a MSI MS-6163 Pro, PIII 650MHz cooled passively and temps are great, but it was a real pain to find the right heatsink and it almost touches the memory modules.

And in terms of slot 1 coppermines, google is you friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... 2_(180_nm)

DOS build: Gigabyte GA-586T2, P200 MMX, 64MB RAM, Tseng ET6000 4MB, Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold, Roland SC-55mkII, Yamaha MU-80
98SE build: MSI MS-6163 Pro, PIII 650MHz, 256MB RAM, Voodoo3 3000, Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 Platinum, Yamaha SW1000XG

Reply 2 of 14, by .legaCy

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blackmasked wrote:
I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 […]
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I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 CPUs.
Slot 1 CPU coolers are usually just good enough, you are limited to loud 40/50mm fan(s) and you could end up having clearance issues with memory, caps, etc.
I have a MSI MS-6163 Pro, PIII 650MHz cooled passively and temps are great, but it was a real pain to find the right heatsink and it almost touches the memory modules.

And in terms of slot 1 coppermines, google is you friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... 2_(180_nm)

Well i found one slocket adapter , i guess that for coppermine there is not anything compatibility-wise to look for on those adapters?
adaptador-soquete-mod-pga-370-socket-x-slot-1-cartucho-D_NQ_NP_625457-MLB26067352070_092017-F.jpg
And for slot1 mobos, i know that the 440bx is the top notch , but any other chipset that i should look for?

Edit: i found a Soyo Sy 7vba133 with a pentium 3 1.0ghz, should i get it or should i get a Asus P3B-F ?

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[ How to Multiboot any OS | Rebuilding GOG Installer for Win9x | 486DX-4 Build | S7 Time machine Build |
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Reply 3 of 14, by blackmasked

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I am afraid 440BX is the only Slot 1 chipset I am familiar with.

DOS build: Gigabyte GA-586T2, P200 MMX, 64MB RAM, Tseng ET6000 4MB, Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold, Roland SC-55mkII, Yamaha MU-80
98SE build: MSI MS-6163 Pro, PIII 650MHz, 256MB RAM, Voodoo3 3000, Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 Platinum, Yamaha SW1000XG

Reply 4 of 14, by gdjacobs

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VIA Apollo Pro chipsets are pretty common, although the associated south bridges are problematic with some PCI cards (for example, SB Live), and performance is generally not as good as the 440BX. The 440ZX is in some boards as well. It's simply a less capable version of the 440BX.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 5 of 14, by .legaCy

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Well so i will be going with the p3b-f since it has the legendary 440bx.

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[ How to Multiboot any OS | Rebuilding GOG Installer for Win9x | 486DX-4 Build | S7 Time machine Build |
twitch stream (in portuguese)

Reply 6 of 14, by dionb

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.legaCy wrote:
blackmasked wrote:
I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 […]
Show full quote

I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 CPUs.
Slot 1 CPU coolers are usually just good enough, you are limited to loud 40/50mm fan(s) and you could end up having clearance issues with memory, caps, etc.
I have a MSI MS-6163 Pro, PIII 650MHz cooled passively and temps are great, but it was a real pain to find the right heatsink and it almost touches the memory modules.

And in terms of slot 1 coppermines, google is you friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... 2_(180_nm)

Well i found one slocket adapter , i guess that for coppermine there is not anything compatibility-wise to look for on those adapters?

Don't be too sure of that. There are three different So370 socket pinouts:
PPGA (Celeron Mendocino only)
FC-PGA (Coppermine only)
FC-PGA2 (Tualatin only)

Generally (but not always) the sockets tend to be backwards compatible, but they are never forwards compatible. So if you get a PPGA-slocket adapter, you can't run Coppermine CPUs in it.

I can't find any clear specs on this "370SP rev 2.0" adapter, but the 1.0 was definitely PPGA only. Of course PPGA can be modded to FC-PGA with patience, some soldering skills and the relevant pinouts, but I'd double-check this before shelling out on it.

And for slot1 mobos, i know that the 440bx is the top notch , but any other chipset that i should look for?

Edit: i found a Soyo Sy 7vba133 with a pentium 3 1.0ghz, should i get it or should i get a Asus P3B-F ?

Depends what you want. The i440BX gives you the lowest latencies and higher performance at a given clock, but by 2000 it was dated and lacks a few important things:
- no 133MHz FSB support. It generally does overclock well, frequently up to 133MHz and beyond, but then you hit the next issue:
- no 1/2 AGP divider support. So if you overclock the FSB to 133MHz, you're running the AGP port at 87MHz. Not all AGP cards respond well to that.
- 1/4 PCI divider support was rare. Same problem there, PCI devices (particularly HDD controllers) tend not to like higher clock speeds. If you want to try to run 133MHz FSB on an i440BX, you need a board with this divider. Note that this is the sort of thing which can and does differ between revisions.
- max 128Mb memory density. That means max RAM of 1GB (if you have four slots), and that only works with 256MB double-sided modules with 16 16Mx8 chips each. Most PC133 modules you come across will be single-sided modules with 32Mx8 chips (or appalling 16 chip single sided monstrosities with 32Mx4 chips, which are not supported by Intel memory controllers in any case). Note that "single sided" and "double sided" refer to the internal organisation of the chips, it is entirely possible DIMM with chips physically only on one side is double-sided (8 8Mx16 chips), or with chips physically on both sides is single-sided (16 32Mx4 chips). If you don't want to worry about this, stick to 128MB DIMMs with no more than 8 chips. Or choose a more modern chipset.
- no ATA-66 or 100 support on chipset. Less of an issue, as you're probably going to use a SATA card anyway... (and if you want a period HDD, the HDD itself is going to be the bottleneck at ATA-33 speeds)

To avoid these issues, you could look for a board with the Via ApolloPro133A (694x) chipset. It gives you:
- 133MHz FSB support
- 1/2 AGP divider
- 1/4 PCI divider
- max 256Mb memory density and support for x4 chips, and max 2GB total RAM.

Downsides:
- worse performance at same clock (although just a few percent)
- the 686A/B southbridges are notorious for PCI compatibility issues with Creative sound cards (although in Via's defence, Creative used proprietary Intel-only extensions to the PCI standard where Via stuck to regular standards)

Or if you're lucky, you might find a board with an SiS635 chipset. These things were rare even in the day, but offered clock-for-clock performance equal to the venerable i440BX, no significant compatibility issues, yet the whole feature set of the ApolloPro133A.

Avoid Intel i815-based boards, if only because of their 512MB memory limit. And the less said about i820-based Rambus platforms the better 😉

Reply 7 of 14, by .legaCy

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dionb wrote:
Depends what you want. The i440BX gives you the lowest latencies and higher performance at a given clock, but by 2000 it was dat […]
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Depends what you want. The i440BX gives you the lowest latencies and higher performance at a given clock, but by 2000 it was dated and lacks a few important things:
- no 133MHz FSB support. It generally does overclock well, frequently up to 133MHz and beyond, but then you hit the next issue:
- no 1/2 AGP divider support. So if you overclock the FSB to 133MHz, you're running the AGP port at 87MHz. Not all AGP cards respond well to that.
- 1/4 PCI divider support was rare. Same problem there, PCI devices (particularly HDD controllers) tend not to like higher clock speeds. If you want to try to run 133MHz FSB on an i440BX, you need a board with this divider. Note that this is the sort of thing which can and does differ between revisions.
- max 128Mb memory density. That means max RAM of 1GB (if you have four slots), and that only works with 256MB double-sided modules with 16 16Mx8 chips each. Most PC133 modules you come across will be single-sided modules with 32Mx8 chips (or appalling 16 chip single sided monstrosities with 32Mx4 chips, which are not supported by Intel memory controllers in any case). Note that "single sided" and "double sided" refer to the internal organisation of the chips, it is entirely possible DIMM with chips physically only on one side is double-sided (8 8Mx16 chips), or with chips physically on both sides is single-sided (16 32Mx4 chips). If you don't want to worry about this, stick to 128MB DIMMs with no more than 8 chips. Or choose a more modern chipset.
- no ATA-66 or 100 support on chipset. Less of an issue, as you're probably going to use a SATA card anyway... (and if you want a period HDD, the HDD itself is going to be the bottleneck at ATA-33 speeds)

- fsb 100 is fine, if i wanna a high performance i have my Pentium 4 3.0, i want to go with the hardware that probably my friend had back in the day and it was a pentium 3 800mhz(not sure if it was the 133 or 100mhz,but im almost sure that is the 100mhz fsb), i'm more concerned about the stability.
- well no overclock intended so not a issue.
- same as above.
- 128MB of ram will be used, so i'm not too concerned, i have some 64MB of PC133 that could be used, and even quite a lot of 32MB PC100(but then i will not be able to use the tighter timings).
- I will use a 20GB ST320410A, not concerned about the speed because the lack of speed would be nostalgic.

But the price point for me to choose the Soyo Sy 7vba133 and the Asus P3B-F are basically the same, the performance is not a priority, but the stability is, i will not use a SB Live, i will hunt down one aureal vortex 2 card.
Well this project is just on the planning step,i will start buying the parts after january that i don't have(currently i have the case, the drives,the ram and the v3 3000), so i'm taking all comments about the cpu and mobo in consideration.

Useful links
[ How to Multiboot any OS | Rebuilding GOG Installer for Win9x | 486DX-4 Build | S7 Time machine Build |
twitch stream (in portuguese)

Reply 8 of 14, by dionb

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.legaCy wrote:
dionb wrote:

But the price point for me to choose the Soyo Sy 7vba133 and the Asus P3B-F are basically the same, the performance is not a priority, but the stability is, i will not use a SB Live, i will hunt down one aureal vortex 2 card.
Well this project is just on the planning step,i will start buying the parts after january that i don't have(currently i have the case, the drives,the ram and the v3 3000), so i'm taking all comments about the cpu and mobo in consideration.

If stability is your prime concern and you only want/need 100MHz FSB, i440BX beats Via ApolloPro133a any day. However you're also comparing Slot 1 to So370 FC-PGA here. Both are perfectly stable themselves, but I'd recommend against using converters unless you absolutely can't avoid it. A good one installed correctly is fine, but either bad hardware or messy installation can give you problems.

So if you can only choose between these two boards, go for the P3B-F if you get a Slot 1 CPU and go for the 7VBA133 if you get an FC-PGA CPU. If you can just as easily get either, go for the P3B-F and the Slot 1 CPU.

Reply 9 of 14, by chinny22

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For ultimate stability you can look into getting a BX motherboard from Intel themselves, Not that it REALLY makes much difference,
Either SE440BX-2 (retail) or SE440BX-3 (OEM)
Gateway used the -3 and has a Ensonic PCI64 on-board, So did Dell XPS with a more desirable Yamaha on-board sound, but suffers from the non standard ATX connector.

Some retail boards were even selling NIB little while ago in the US
Good thing is RAM is cheap, Just got 3 sticks of Kingston 256Mb 133 sticks for £7 a go, for my Slot 1 so its all matching now (important I know)

Reply 10 of 14, by Anonymous Coward

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I have fond memories of my PIII-550 slot 1 retail CPU on an Abit BX6 R2 with a Voodoo3.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Processore-CPU-intel … vcAAOSwO7haFSYp

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 11 of 14, by .legaCy

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You guys know the software called throttle right? It will work well with the 440bx or the apollo ?

Useful links
[ How to Multiboot any OS | Rebuilding GOG Installer for Win9x | 486DX-4 Build | S7 Time machine Build |
twitch stream (in portuguese)

Reply 12 of 14, by Allanar

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blackmasked wrote on 2017-12-21, 18:34:
I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 […]
Show full quote

I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 CPUs.
Slot 1 CPU coolers are usually just good enough, you are limited to loud 40/50mm fan(s) and you could end up having clearance issues with memory, caps, etc.
I have a MSI MS-6163 Pro, PIII 650MHz cooled passively and temps are great, but it was a real pain to find the right heatsink and it almost touches the memory modules.

And in terms of slot 1 coppermines, google is you friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... 2_(180_nm)

Hi, I want to ask you a question:
I want to build a pc like you have
can you please describe my parameters more precisely
thank you very much 😀
98SE build: MSI MS-6163 Pro, PIII 650MHz, 256MB RAM, Voodoo3 3000, Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 Platinum

Reply 13 of 14, by Allanar

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blackmasked wrote on 2017-12-21, 18:34:
I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 […]
Show full quote

I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 CPUs.
Slot 1 CPU coolers are usually just good enough, you are limited to loud 40/50mm fan(s) and you could end up having clearance issues with memory, caps, etc.
I have a MSI MS-6163 Pro, PIII 650MHz cooled passively and temps are great, but it was a real pain to find the right heatsink and it almost touches the memory modules.

And in terms of slot 1 coppermines, google is you friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... 2_(180_nm)

i want to ask, I need an additional fan for my graphics card Voodoo 3 3000 agp?

Thanks

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-03-22, 05:56. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 14 of 14, by Tetrium

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Allanar wrote on 2021-03-19, 15:09:
blackmasked wrote on 2017-12-21, 18:34:
I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 […]
Show full quote

I would rather go for socket 370 than slot 1, as it is easier to come up with a silent / nearly silent cooling solution for S370 CPUs.
Slot 1 CPU coolers are usually just good enough, you are limited to loud 40/50mm fan(s) and you could end up having clearance issues with memory, caps, etc.
I have a MSI MS-6163 Pro, PIII 650MHz cooled passively and temps are great, but it was a real pain to find the right heatsink and it almost touches the memory modules.

And in terms of slot 1 coppermines, google is you friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... 2_(180_nm)

i want to ask, I need an additional fan for my graphics card Voodoo 3 3000 agp?

Thanks

Better to start a new thread for this instead of necroing a 4 year old different one

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