VOGONS


Reply 81 of 100, by Baoran

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infiniteclouds wrote:

I personally would rather have the 'best of' a certain technology than the 'first of' -- without sacrificing compatibility, anyway.

Many people still want things that are first of something. Like for example the first geforce card.

Reply 82 of 100, by BlueSkullKey

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My guesses
1. A niche interest in old HP Z/Dell Precision/etc.? Like SGI/Sun/etc. now. People will run old Linux on them, 🤣.
2. Cheap chinese mechanical keyboards with switches made in China.
3. Windows Vista era notebook computers. Don't ask.

Reply 83 of 100, by Unknown_K

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Baoran wrote:
infiniteclouds wrote:

I personally would rather have the 'best of' a certain technology than the 'first of' -- without sacrificing compatibility, anyway.

Many people still want things that are first of something. Like for example the first geforce card.

People pay good money for the first card of something and let it sit on the shelf while paying less for the preferred card they will actually use.

Collector of old computers, hardware, and software

Reply 85 of 100, by SpectriaForce

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First SSD drives, last hard drives, bluray drives, Seasonic power supplies, LGA2066, Toshiba and Sony notebooks, Eizo flatscreens, Lian Li cases. Just anything that’s rare, first or last, high end, enthusiast oriented, Japanese made and shiny 😊

for ready to use retro game pc's click here

Reply 86 of 100, by Strahssis

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SpectriaForce wrote:

First SSD drives, last hard drives, bluray drives, Seasonic power supplies, LGA2066, Toshiba and Sony notebooks, Eizo flatscreens, Lian Li cases. Just anything that’s rare, first or last, high end, enthusiast oriented, Japanese made and shiny 😊

Yes, I think Seasonic power supplies might be something people want later on. Hard drives are not yet on there way out though and it will take a long time for them to disappear from store shelves, if they even ever will so. 😀

Mimi: AMD K6-2/266, S3 Trio64, Diamond Monster 3D II, Sound Blaster CT2800, 32MB RAM
Satellite 220CS: Pentium 133, SVGA DSTN, Sound Blaster Pro, 64MB RAM
Contura 420CX: 486DX4 75, VGA TFT, Roland Serial MIDI, 16MB RAM

Reply 88 of 100, by jxalex

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No updates -- no problems. Lets see another look which is not consuming but rather producing yourself too.
So, sidenote: what IF you did some peripheral hardware or the software which you also USE? Then it is not so clear about abandoning. How about then that picture is? during 80s. some of us perhaps made the entire computer from discrete components (although it was 2,5Mhz). I think they still keep it while there are GHz machines already.

AFAIK no emulators cant in some mythical reasons replace MIDI and digital audio multitrack hardware which requires LPT port(s), several PCI buses -- those just have to be in the machine. Thus the hardware changes or platform discontinuing hits hard.
Man just doesnt throw away expensive already bought hardware just becouse one corporation says NOW everyone goes on to USB instead or so on. The new peripheral hardware models for this costs still the same price as 10 years ago for the older models . (The MOTU 8x8 -- 2 midi interfaces cost 600EUR, plus 2 new 10-track similar old soundcards 1200 EUR).
Now for a moment -- imagine that perhaps I did the hardware myself in the past? So it is not just throw-away-buy-new. I won't throw it away becouse some big corporation says that it is old or the support for this or that bus or port is no longer supported in their next coming hardware or operating system. Also it can be that in order to use in the newer platform or system there will be both hardware and software changes. Perhaps I wont get the necessary details for my own hardware development, perhaps there is very tricky to make the driver for newer platform. Okay perhaps succeeded. But after several years AGAIN the same thing can happen again. All of this makes totally impractical to follow new platforms. WHAT FOR? I make the thing just one time for OLD platform and hardware and use it whole eternity!
Now the upgrading squirrel-cycle is the reason why I deliberately built my NEW hardware to a machine which is in deep 90s and software is for DOS. 😁

About those massproduced PCs...

there must be some technological difference between them other than the software it runs or processing speed. The CPU speeds lineup is nothing than artirifically created thing, just like the soundcard makers release 1, 2, 4, 10 channel multitrack cards and add the middle-powered versions.

The difference then must be expansion buses, or something which was the first or last ones for some function in something.
Still, some differences are very subtle. I see no point of getting the Gravis Ultrasound MAX card with 512kB if in the machine there is 1MB GUS MAX card already. It is just like the difference between 486DX-2 50/66/80Mhz CPUs.

IMHO, looking my machines then there will be nothing new after single core pentium 4, as the last ones able to run DOS correctly and fast.
From now on as the newest machine will be replaced by another one after the linux support is ended.

what about practical value?

imagine if something end up the support for some particular architecture? Then there is no point of keeping it becouse for older existing tricks it is too new and incompatible (assuming you have something DOS), but the newer platform it is not supported, while all the software on that system has no longer practical value or runs better on a new machine.

At the same time, this is perhaps a keeper only if there is some very particular software and hardware which requires just THIS platform in order to run correctly.

Last edited by jxalex on 2018-11-04, 17:49. Edited 1 time in total.

Current project: DOS ISA soundcard with 24bit/96Khz digital I/O, SB16 compatible switchable.
newly made SB-clone ...with 24bit and AES/EBU... join in development!

Reply 89 of 100, by jxalex

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Strahssis wrote:

As Microsoft said that they are never going to end support for Windows 10, which I highly doubt, then compatibility issues with current games and software should be no problem in the future. 😀

... it means that M$ have some new methods to milk these users or there will be other pushes.

I wonder how many people ever know the backdoors in it and why people still have curtains at the windows10 but wont mind privacy in their computers?

It seems that overclocking days are mostly gone. Now it is downclocking instead.

Current project: DOS ISA soundcard with 24bit/96Khz digital I/O, SB16 compatible switchable.
newly made SB-clone ...with 24bit and AES/EBU... join in development!

Reply 90 of 100, by Cga.8086

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for me , things like a Thermaltake tsunami case or some Lian Li cases. Cases now are cheap as hell and made of cheap metal.
there were some historical PC cases that are lost and now i wish i had one of those.

for example did you know lianli actually had an aluminum pc case that in the side window it had an Aquarium? that is so hilarious and so retro that its impossible to find one now.

Also in the past there were many coolers and heatsinks made of pure copper, that must be lost also because of scrappers.

Reply 91 of 100, by nforce4max

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There is one thing that this thread proves above all else that was true then and true now is that people are incredibly short sighted as ever but that gives others the opportunity to buy up cheap hardware when demand is almost nonexistent long before there is any popular interest. The same happened with the 486 and socket 5/7 era with almost no one paying any attention and look at it now with much of the same hardware going for ridiculous premiums.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 92 of 100, by dionb

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SpectriaForce wrote:

First SSD drives, last hard drives, bluray drives, Seasonic power supplies, LGA2066, Toshiba and Sony notebooks, Eizo flatscreens, Lian Li cases. Just anything that’s rare, first or last, high end, enthusiast oriented, Japanese made and shiny 😊

The first SSDs *are* old enough to be retro already - and yep, guilty as charged: my 'stupid overkill Packard Bell P3' system has an Intel X25E 64GB SLC SSD in it. Because I could (and because the seller though SLC was worth less than MLC and priced appropriately 😵 ). And I keep an eye out for Eizo monitors (flat or otherwise) in thrift shops - although was surprised to see they also had enough crap TN screens, so not blindly.

But yeah - Seasonic? They have epic marketing, but the actual hardware is nothing special. Then again, the same could be said about Antec and people go nuts on them, even if they know they need to completely recap the buggers...

Reply 93 of 100, by Strahssis

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infiniteclouds wrote:

Wait, why are Seasonic PSUs desirable? I am currently using the box for my 600W- S12 as a mini-toolbox -- I still have the PSU, too, in my XP build.

Seasonic power supplies are generally known for their quality and reliability. 😀

jxalex wrote:

it means that M$ have some new methods to milk these users or there will be other pushes.
I wonder how many people ever know the backdoors in it and why people still have curtains at the windows10 but wont mind privacy in their computers? It seems that overclocking days are mostly gone. Now it is downclocking instead.

I'm not planning on using Windows 10 ever myself. The appearance looks like trash and you need to modify the operating system in order to change that (personal opinion). You can't disable automatic updates, so if a new update has a conflict with one of your drivers, you're screwed until Microsoft finds a solution for the problem. Microsoft installs all kinds of bloatware on your computer and even if you remove it, which will take some effort, the bloatware will be back on the next update. On top of that, they removed the Safedisc driver, which makes compatibility with many older games a real pain. And don't forget the privacy concerns as a cherry on top of the cake! I will probably move to Lubuntu after the support for Windows 7, the last proper operating system by Microsoft remaining, ends. 😠

This rant about Windows 10 is probably really off-topic. . .. 😕

Mimi: AMD K6-2/266, S3 Trio64, Diamond Monster 3D II, Sound Blaster CT2800, 32MB RAM
Satellite 220CS: Pentium 133, SVGA DSTN, Sound Blaster Pro, 64MB RAM
Contura 420CX: 486DX4 75, VGA TFT, Roland Serial MIDI, 16MB RAM

Reply 94 of 100, by The Serpent Rider

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The first SSDs *are* old enough to be retro already - and yep, guilty as charged: my 'stupid overkill Packard Bell P3' system has an Intel X25E 64GB SLC SSD in it.

First SSDs are far older though.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 95 of 100, by jxalex

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Strahssis wrote:

(about Windows 10)
The appearance looks like trash and you need to modify the operating system in order to change that (personal opinion). You can't disable automatic updates, so if a new update has a conflict with one of your drivers, you're screwed until Microsoft finds a solution for the problem. Microsoft installs all kinds of bloatware on your computer and even if you remove it, which will take some effort, the bloatware will be back on the next update. On top of that, they removed the Safedisc driver, which makes compatibility with many older games a real pain. And don't forget the privacy concerns as a cherry on top of the cake!

It makes very much sense why they wont end win10 support then -- it is not for users, it is for Big Brother. They succeeded to develop it to this phase, now just Overton Window will move on and many see this perversion peeping as normal,

Current project: DOS ISA soundcard with 24bit/96Khz digital I/O, SB16 compatible switchable.
newly made SB-clone ...with 24bit and AES/EBU... join in development!

Reply 96 of 100, by amadeus777999

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As already mentioned Pentium4 stuff may start shining.
Albeit it only may be 423 systems + RDRam and the higher end P4P800xx hardware. The army of "generic" P4 trash(low end intel and counterparts) is/seems rather hopeless but is in many cases extremely useful for everyday "retro" needs.
Only lower on the totem-pole of perceived prestige is later Athlon 462 stuff which has a similar junk-flair and look to it. I remember back then these "generic" boards started popping up with onboard sound which everybody seemed to buy.

Reply 97 of 100, by dionb

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amadeus777999 wrote:

As already mentioned Pentium4 stuff may start shining.
Albeit it only may be 423 systems + RDRam and the higher end P4P800xx hardware.

RDRAM is already starting down that course. P4P800 & co had awful failure rates, so that's being 'helped' from the supply side - they tended to

The army of "generic" P4 trash(low end intel and counterparts) is/seems rather hopeless but is in many cases extremely useful for everyday "retro" needs.

The PC Chips M919 is now a classic, even if provided with completely fake cache. Octek boards are highly sought-after. One day even an ECS or Foxconn board is going to be collectible.

Only lower on the totem-pole of perceived prestige is later Athlon 462 stuff which has a similar junk-flair and look to it. I remember back then these "generic" boards started popping up with onboard sound which everybody seemed to buy.

Boards from defunct manufacturers like Soltek are already commanding a premium. Add to that the fact that the CPUs are uniquely vulnerable to core crunching, and the platform's peak popularity coinciding with the worst days of the capacitor plague and low supply is likely to start biting.

Reply 98 of 100, by Strahssis

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amadeus777999 wrote:

As already mentioned Pentium4 stuff may start shining.

I myself am trying to gather as many Pentium 4 related hardware as possible. Everyone is trying to get rid of them now, so you can get Pentium 4 machines now for quiet cheap, or even for free if you're lucky. This way I will have my parts bin filled up by the time the availability of the Pentium 4 hardware decreases and the prices will rise again. 😀

Quiet honestly, I think Pentium 4 machines have already established their place and purpose in the retro community, just not everyone is aware of that yet. And even though this is really not relevant; I can honestly get quiet nostalgic over those silver HP DC5100, grey Dell Optiplex and Packard Bell iMedia cases. 😊

Mimi: AMD K6-2/266, S3 Trio64, Diamond Monster 3D II, Sound Blaster CT2800, 32MB RAM
Satellite 220CS: Pentium 133, SVGA DSTN, Sound Blaster Pro, 64MB RAM
Contura 420CX: 486DX4 75, VGA TFT, Roland Serial MIDI, 16MB RAM

Reply 99 of 100, by The Serpent Rider

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RDRAM is already starting down that course.

RDRAM boards are too niche and clunky for that.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me