VOGONS


Help identify 386 Board

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First post, by ReL

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Hello friends, for some time I've been trying to find the model of this board, and of course without success.
Can any recognize this model?

oy3iw6Dh.jpg
m3nivijh.jpg
d33e2FTh.jpg
t2iYyFEh.jpg
doLYDh3h.jpg

Reply 1 of 30, by Anonymous Coward

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I don't know this board, but it's a 1990 design based on an early revision SiS Rabbit chipset.
The motherboard model may be near that copyright notice in between the ISA slots, but you didn't show that part of the board.

This board likely takes up to 8MB in SIPP memory and 64kb cache. It likely tops out at 33MHz. This is the first board I have ever seen that uses ceramic SRAMs with gold tops. Those might be worth some money.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 3 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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Why on earth would you place a motherboard on a fuzzy carpet to photograph it?
Ever hear of static?
.

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Reply 4 of 30, by ReL

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I have overlooked these sites that have manuals from old motherboards, as far as I'm not aware, there's no one that's about to look like this..

the motherboard has a bottom guard
7BfjkNth.jpg

Reply 5 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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ReL wrote:

the motherboard has a bottom guard

That is not ESD protection that is to keep the solder joints from shorting against something, like for instance a dropped screw.
Static will jump right around that thing on the edges or through the screw hole.
Doesn't do a thing for static.
.

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Reply 6 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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If your BIOS chip isn't fried, the BIOS string might help ID the board.
Also a photo of the section Anonymous Coward asked you for.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
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Reply 7 of 30, by ReL

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PCBONEZ wrote:
That is not ESD protection that is to keep the solder joints from shorting against something, like for instance a dropped screw. […]
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ReL wrote:

the motherboard has a bottom guard

That is not ESD protection that is to keep the solder joints from shorting against something, like for instance a dropped screw.
Static will jump right around that thing on the edges or through the screw hole.
Doesn't do a thing for static.
.

maybe it can happen for all these years how much I work with computers I did not see such a case, when it happens to me then I will agree. In any case, thanks for caution

Reply 8 of 30, by derSammler

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ReL wrote:

maybe it can happen for all these years how much I work with computers I did not see such a case

A common mistake people make. In 99% of ESD damage cases, you won't notice it, as it does not kill something at once. Rather, ESD will cause damage that shortens lifetime dramatically. So a mainboard that would have worked for another 10 years may fail after a few weeks once a ESD damage has happened. And people aren't able to see a connection between this and improper handling.

Reply 9 of 30, by ReL

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derSammler wrote:
ReL wrote:

maybe it can happen for all these years how much I work with computers I did not see such a case

A common mistake people make. In 99% of ESD damage cases, you won't notice it, as it does not kill something at once. Rather, ESD will cause damage that shortens lifetime dramatically. So a mainboard that would have worked for another 10 years may fail after a few weeks once a ESD damage has happened. And people aren't able to see a connection between this and improper handling.

I agree, of course, it just does not mean that I put something on the carpet to get the spark out of the carpet. for this it should have a little more rubbing on the floor to make something happen..
I have a computer that works for me over 30 years and works without error, and who knows what I did not do to him..

I'm glad that there are people here who can talk about everything 😀

Reply 10 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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ReL wrote:
PCBONEZ wrote:
That is not ESD protection that is to keep the solder joints from shorting against something, like for instance a dropped screw. […]
Show full quote
ReL wrote:

the motherboard has a bottom guard

That is not ESD protection that is to keep the solder joints from shorting against something, like for instance a dropped screw.
Static will jump right around that thing on the edges or through the screw hole.
Doesn't do a thing for static.
.

maybe it can happen for all these years how much I work with computers I did not see such a case, when it happens to me then I will agree. In any case, thanks for caution

I've been an electronics tech since 1981 and after I retired from that I went into motherboard repair, which I did for over a decade.
About the time you've worked on and repaired 4000 motherboards your experience level will be up to mine.
.
ESD frying a BIOS chip is not that unusual.
.
Just trying to keep you from ruining what looks to be a nice board.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 11 of 30, by ReL

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maybe it can happen for all these years how much I work with computers I did not see such a case, when it happens to me then I will agree. In any case, thanks for caution[/quote]
I've been an electronics tech since 1981 and after I retired from that I went into motherboard repair, which I did for over a decade.
About the time you've worked on and repaired 4000 motherboards your experience level will be up to mine.
.
ESD frying a BIOS chip is not that unusual.
.[/quote]

my father began to work electronically and with computers in the early 80's, I'm a little younger, but all the time while working with computers through my house before a large number of computers, which were repaired and the rest, and mostly were others failures, and this is not what we are talking about here, but of course, each of us finds some new errors and failures

Reply 12 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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Still waiting for that other snapshot - or just post what it says between the slots.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
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Reply 13 of 30, by ReL

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PCBONEZ wrote:

Still waiting for that other snapshot - or just post what it says between the slots.

this part of the motherboard?
All the other motherboards that I have most often found but these are me bother...
UtyqFrEh.jpg

Reply 14 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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Yes that's the spot. Thank you.
Unfortunately what i hoped was there is not.

Are there any stickers on sides of slots or any numbers that look like they may be a part number (instead of a name)?

If not you're stuck with picture searches or shear luck that someone recognizes it until you get a BIOS string.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 15 of 30, by ReL

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PCBONEZ wrote:
Yes that's the spot. Thank you. Unfortunately what i hoped was there is not. […]
Show full quote

Yes that's the spot. Thank you.
Unfortunately what i hoped was there is not.

Are there any stickers on sides of slots or any numbers that look like they may be a part number (instead of a name)?

If not you're stuck with picture searches or shear luck that someone recognizes it until you get a BIOS string.
.

there are no stickers on it, everything is totally clean without stickers of some numbers and that..
I'll see these days when I turn it on and watch what the bios are, so that I can see it through whoever produced it and the rest..
I mostly used this site
http://www.idhw.com/textual/guide/inst_mobo_ami.html

Reply 16 of 30, by Malvineous

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Closest I can see is http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/m/A-B/32783.htm - maybe some of the jumpers line up? A lot of these boards were variations on a theme, so finding a similar one can be enough to figure out what all the jumpers do on a bunch of similar boards.

Re the static issue, I didn't think placing a board on carpet would cause any issues either. Carpet is an insulator, so while you might raise the board's potential up to many thousands of volts, unless you discharge it through the board (by touching the metal parts) then it would be fine because the whole board is at the same potential - net voltage across the circuit is zero. Since the golden rule is to never touch the conductive parts, it wouldn't seem to matter what the surface is.

My favourite story is when I picked up a cheap 440BX motherboard from a seller in person many years ago. It was cheap because the onboard primary IDE channel wasn't working, but the rest of the board was fine. When I picked it up and brought an antistatic bag with me to carry it in, the seller laughed at me wondering what the bag was for. He claimed to have never had any problems with static electricity damage and had worked with computer parts for years. I was young at the time so I didn't point out the irony of him claiming to have had no problems, while at the same time selling me a cheap board that had clearly been damaged by static electricity. It was a textbook case - killing a tiny part of one chip (primary IDE) but leaving the rest of the chip and board unharmed.

I am always amused by people who handle things poorly and claim to have never damaged anything with static electricity, yet when you get talking to them you often start to hear about all the mysterious failures they've had over the years and how they've had parts that worked fine one day and broke the next, or something that was always playing up, or their card never worked as well as someone else's identical card, etc, etc. All symptoms of the cumulative effects of minor static electricity damage.

Reply 17 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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Sorry but carpet is not an insulator. As to static it's actually a GENERATOR.
When the fibers rub together carpets create brand new static which travels into other things.
Any one that has ever walked across a carpet and gotten zapped by a door knob has experienced it for themselves.

I once had a client that made the mistake of having his offices carpeted with short-shag carpet.
Anytime someone walked across the room and plugged in a USB stick the static discharge fried the USB chip on the motherboard.
They had over a dozen systems with dead USB ports before they called me.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 18 of 30, by Malvineous

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Well unless you have carpet made of steel wool, it's not going to conduct electricity! It doesn't generate electricity either. What happens is the friction of walking across it causes electrons to rub off your shoes and stick to the carpet (or vice versa), creating a voltage differential (you now have a fewer electrons, the carpet has more, therefore there's a voltage difference). Let's say the voltage difference is 1000V. If you carefully put the motherboard on the carpet, it will be harmlessly raised to that same 1000V (the charge will travel into it as you've said), but the whole board will sit at that same potential and so nothing bad will happen. The +5V line might only allow 5V more than GND before something breaks, and here it is sitting at 1000V, but the GND connector is also sitting at 1000V. This means the difference between +5V and GND is zero which is less than the 5V maximum and so everything is fine. If, however, you come across and stick your finger too close then that 1000V difference will suddenly equalise in a spark, with the discharge possibly damaging the board as part of the circuit will briefly see many thousands of volts travelling through it to reach your finger.

USB ports are also designed specifically to handle this kind of static buildup, which is why the shield makes contact before any of the pins. You might have 10,000V of static build up, and when the shields touch you get a spark which is passed harmlessly out to ground, but by the time the data/power pins make contact there should be no voltage differential and thus no broken USB ports - at least in theory.

Of course I'm not doubting you experienced broken ports from static discharge - if the ports aren't shielded properly or the earthing conductors are missing due to cost cutting then you can certainly fry them, but this kind of issue is a symptom of poor shielding/earthing failing to deal with static electricity rather than a problem with static electricity in and of itself.

Reply 19 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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Malvineous wrote:

Well unless you have carpet made of steel wool

I don't need to read past that to know that you don't understand static electricity.

Ever hear of static wrap? (aka shrink wrap.) It works because many plastics will hold a static charge.

Ever get zapped because of a wool sweater? Was it a STEEL wool sweater?

Socks from a drier. Do you wear metal socks?

------
Metal is not required to generate or discharge static.
It's a useful tool to direct a discharge, but that's all.
.

Last edited by PCBONEZ on 2018-05-06, 14:07. Edited 3 times in total.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.