PrimarchBentley wrote:

I've had this hardware kicking around for a while, but have finally gotten around to working on it (ie. I need a freakin' hobby).

The main donor is a Leading Edge Fortiva 5000 - aka. Daewoo CPC-2800. Quirky motherboardboard, but the onboard I/O (1 FDD, 1 IDE, 2 COM, 1 LPT and PS/2 keyboard and mouse) really help kick things along the road. 2x VESA slots, 3x EISA - FSB selectable between 25/33/40 - 2x 72-pin SIMM slots. Comes with a Daewoo Mach32 VLB video card, with apparently 1mb onboard with expansion up to 2mb. Also, 3.5" floppy, 2x CD, and Maxtor 540mb 7540AV. Memory is 2x sticks @ 32mb each, marked MGV and populated by TI TMS417400ADJ-60 chips.

That sounds like some impressive motherboard and a nice VLB VGA card too.

Sound - TBD. Comes with an AZTech sound card, but I'm pretty sure I have an SB 16 / Pro and/or AWE32 in storage. But if worse comes to worse, I have a Disney Sound Source kicking around somewhere... 😁

Which Aztech card? Most of those things are like an SBPro 2.0 on steroids, with real OPL3, MIDI without hanging notes and good SNR. Check the I38- FCC ID against the list here: https://ilovepa.ws/2017/06/08/aztech-sound-cards/

Some Aztech cards even have wavetable onboard (although getting it to work is another matter entirely - I've not managed it with my I38-MMSN826 😢 )

If you have some other wavetable thing (daughterboard or external module), I'd prefer an AZT2316-based card to pretty much any Soundblaster in terms of just plain working with no TSRs, no bug, and delivering good sound. Depending on era, the added value of SB16 is hardly used, AWE even less so, and given that the SB16/32/64 family doesn't support SBPro properly, I'm no huge fan. Then again, I have Roland and Gravis stuff, so I'm spoiled for fancy things and just need the basics from an SB-compatible 😉

I'm... not married to the case. With a Gotek USB floppy emulator and 5.25" adapter for Startek CF reader already on the way, I'm considering grabbing an ATX > AT adapter and rebuilding in a cheap modern case.

I'd say that's a shame, given it's pretty original now. What do you expect to gain with a modern case? Particularly a cheap one that will undoubtedly resonate more than the original case...

CPU - I have a bit of a selection here. I have: classic Intel DX-50, Cyrix DX2-66 (original system spec), AMD DX2-80, Intel DX4ODPR100, and an Am5x86-P75 / AMD-X5-133ADZ. I'd be curious about trying out the DX2-80 on the 40FSB, but she's marked 3V and A. I have no obvious way of changing voltage on the mobo and B. I'm not well-versed in VLB, and have seen opinions that deviating away from 33 can be "Here Be Monsters" territory. The X5-133 will probably go into a future build, to push the boundaries in a late gen Socket 3 mobo. This leaves the DX4ODPR100 by default, unless someone here knows a compelling reason to stick with the DX2-66 or to make the effort at 40 FSB and the DX2-80.

The ODPR is the obvious easy choice. With 40MHz FSB, YMMV - the boards themselves tend to be stable, but cache chips and VLB cards need to be able to work with that. You're not going to kill anything trying, so you might as well see what happens.

Objective - retro gaming PC, what else? Grew up with the Wing Commander series, flights sims (the Aces games (aka. "himem/emm386 the Game"), Chuck Yeager's AFT and Air Combat, etc.)

Challenges:
1. Documentation - My Google-fu has failed me trying to get information on this motherboard. For example, what is the actual setting modified by 'Clock Down', is this a multiplier? There's also "CPU Type Setting" - is this another possible multiplier, could it possibly have something to do with voltage as well? I'm not too keen on "twiddle around and try", but I may have to...

Do you have some identifier for the board? Or a photograph? The closest match I can find for your description is this: http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/m/I-L/31851.htm - but no EISA as far as I can tell, so probably not the one.

2. L2 cache - just need to settle on a chip and then find somewhere to order a batch of then from.
3. Longevity - HDD is already on the way out, do I also want to get rid of the PSU as well? If so, there's really no reason NOT to move to a more modern case at that point. Or at least until I find The One tower case to pull me back to the beige side...

With the cache, you need 25ns for 40MHz, although 20ns is generally recommended. Tbh I'd suggest going for 15ns so you can safely use them with a 50MHz FSB system in the future if you can find them.

As for HDD and PSU - HDDs are where I draw the line with old stuff, they're noisy, slow and unreliable. For P1/486 and older I use CF cards with CF-IDE adapters. PSU I tend the other way - I look for dead caps and replace them, and also replace the worn, noisy old fans with new ones, but try to keep the old one. Note that this is purely a matter of personal preference.

dionb wrote:

That sounds like some impressive motherboard and a nice VLB VGA card too.

I'm retracting EISA - this is an odd holdover from growing up, my friends and I tended to call 16-bit ISA "extended ISA" to distinguish from 8-bit (before we knew EISA is it's own, distinct term). This is a bad habit that still plagues me today... 😒

Which Aztech card? Most of those things are like an SBPro 2.0 on steroids, with real OPL3, MIDI without hanging notes and good SNR. Check the I38- FCC ID against the list here: https://ilovepa.ws/2017/06/08/aztech-sound-cards/

Some Aztech cards even have wavetable onboard (although getting it to work is another matter entirely - I've not managed it with my I38-MMSN826 😢 )

If you have some other wavetable thing (daughterboard or external module), I'd prefer an AZT2316-based card to pretty much any Soundblaster in terms of just plain working with no TSRs, no bug, and delivering good sound. Depending on era, the added value of SB16 is hardly used, AWE even less so, and given that the SB16/32/64 family doesn't support SBPro properly, I'm no huge fan. Then again, I have Roland and Gravis stuff, so I'm spoiled for fancy things and just need the basics from an SB-compatible 😉

Aztech is a 2316A, I38-MMSN824. I'd completely overlooked that Yamaha OPL YMF262-M chip... I'll have to consider this with a kinder eye, thanks for the heads-up. I definitely want to try upping my game to a Roland experience, but I'll hold off a bit 'til I get the system up and working in the first place.

I'd say that's a shame, given it's pretty original now. What do you expect to gain with a modern case? Particularly a cheap one that will undoubtedly resonate more than the original case...

The biggest thing is really the PSU, not knowing how much longer it'll last. Provided it looks okay when I open it, I may just retain the original case and run it for as long as the PSU lasts. But even back in the beige days, I preferred tower to desktop cases, and man, this case has seen its share of abuse. I guess I could justify it as "practice for when I come across The One tower" to see what I can make of cleaning it up...

The ODPR is the obvious easy choice. With 40MHz FSB, YMMV - the boards themselves tend to be stable, but cache chips and VLB cards need to be able to work with that. You're not going to kill anything trying, so you might as well see what happens.

True enough, nothing to lose with experimenting. And if I'm going to view this as hobby, I should get more into the mindframe of tinkering vs. "getting it right, right away."

Do you have some identifier for the board? Or a photograph? The closest match I can find for your description is this: http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/m/I-L/31851.htm - but no EISA as far as I can tell, so probably not the one.

Close, but not quite. Very cool site though, definitely bookmarked for future reference. There's a P/N: 9916525902 to the top left above the second-from-left VESA slot. There's a Daewoo logo on the right hand side, but if there's a model number under it, it's covered by a QC Pass sticker. Image later, only image I have ATM is a hastily taken one for my own quick reference.

As for HDD and PSU - HDDs are where I draw the line with old stuff, they're noisy, slow and unreliable. For P1/486 and older I use CF cards with CF-IDE adapters. PSU I tend the other way - I look for dead caps and replace them, and also replace the worn, noisy old fans with new ones, but try to keep the old one. Note that this is purely a matter of personal preference.

Already have plans to swap out the HDD for CF, and to have different CFs (DOS, Win 95, etc.). If I hate myself, I might even break out the early 3.x Slackware CDs... I have a few older 3.5" FDDs set aside in storage, but look forward to trying out the Gotek as FDDs and media aren't eternal.

PrimarchBentley wrote:

I'm retracting EISA - this is an odd holdover from growing up, my friends and I tended to call 16-bit ISA "extended ISA" to distinguish from 8-bit (before we knew EISA is it's own, distinct term). This is a bad habit that still plagues me today... 😒

OK, marginally less unique board then - but probably more practical. You're not the only one to abuse the EISA term. Of course technically, ISA only applies the 16b slots, 8b is just PC/XT expansion bus. The difference is also that ISA specifies a speed to run at (8MHz) whereas the older XT bus just ran at whatever speed the CPU did.

Aztech is a 2316A, I38-MMSN824. I'd completely overlooked that Yamaha OPL YMF262-M chip... I'll have to consider this with a kinder eye, thanks for the heads-up. I definitely want to try upping my game to a Roland experience, but I'll hold off a bit 'til I get the system up and working in the first place.

The 824 is probably the best all-round workhorse Aztech card - early enough not to have PnP nightmares, late enough to have good SNR and pretty bug-free operation. No frills, but competes with a good ESS688 card for the title of best SBPro card out there. No drivers actually needed, but as it's non-PnP without jumpers (just the 220/240 base address selector), you need the config/diagnostic tools to set resources. They're in here: http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=7 … menustate=40,35

IThe biggest thing is really the PSU, not knowing how much longer it'll last. Provided it looks okay when I open it, I may just retain the original case and run it for as long as the PSU lasts. But even back in the beige days, I preferred tower to desktop cases, and man, this case has seen its share of abuse. I guess I could justify it as "practice for when I come across The One tower" to see what I can make of cleaning it up...

Very good practice indeed. Either you get it looking good, or you get the chance to try riskier methods and see what happens without risking something pristine. I personally prefer desktop cases - particularly with old stuff. When connectors get oxidized, even the slightest angle/wobble can mess up connections, and having cards oriented vertically rather than horizontally makes it easier to get and keep everything perfectly straight.

True enough, nothing to lose with experimenting. And if I'm going to view this as hobby, I should get more into the mindframe of tinkering vs. "getting it right, right away."

Definitely. Sometimes you're lucky, often enough you're not - at least, not straight away.

Close, but not quite. Very cool site though, definitely bookmarked for future reference. There's a P/N: 9916525902 to the top left above the second-from-left VESA slot. There's a Daewoo logo on the right hand side, but if there's a model number under it, it's covered by a QC Pass sticker. Image later, only image I have ATM is a hastily taken one for my own quick reference.

Googling that number gives very few hits, but one looks good:
https://archive.is/o4OvO

2900-04 WinTower 486 9916523201

2800-04 Fortiva 5000 '486 9916525902

Now I can't find any manual or jumper settings for a "Fortiva 5000", but this shows that that WinTower 486 board is *very* similar. Are the jumper names/numbers the same?

Already have plans to swap out the HDD for CF, and to have different CFs (DOS, Win 95, etc.). If I hate myself, I might even break out the early 3.x Slackware CDs... I have a few older 3.5" FDDs set aside in storage, but look forward to trying out the Gotek as FDDs and media aren't eternal.

I hated FDDs back in the day and my opinion hasn't gotten better with the state media and drives are in now. Gotek is the way to go for stuff too old to boot from CD (or even USB...)

dionb wrote:

Googling that number gives very few hits, but one looks good: https://archive.is/o4OvO […]
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Googling that number gives very few hits, but one looks good:
https://archive.is/o4OvO

2900-04 WinTower 486 9916523201

2800-04 Fortiva 5000 '486 9916525902

Now I can't find any manual or jumper settings for a "Fortiva 5000", but this shows that that WinTower 486 board is *very* similar. Are the jumper names/numbers the same?

While model numbers are close, the jumpers are quite different. The WinTower 486PC lists J5 as "CPU TYPE CONFIGURATION" with 4 pins, and a selection matrix of 80486SX / 80486SX / ODP486SX / 80486DX2.

This Fortiva 5000 has a row of 6 pins for "CPU TYPE CONFIGURATION" and a configuration diagram as follows:

1   CPU    |   J5
2  486SX   |  2-3
3486DX/DX2/DX4 | 1-2 3-4 5-6

So, whether that's jumper 1-2 only for DX, 3-4 only for DX2, etc. or "all three pairs at the same time, for all three CPU types", that's unclear. The system came jumpered on 5-6 only, but that's with a Cyrix DX2/66, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'll probably leave it jumpered to that (and with the current DX2/66) and wait until L2 chips show up later this week to power on and see what the BIOS reports.

And a long awaited picture. J5 is hanging out below and to the left of the CPU socket. Under the black cable on the right is a UMC UM83C491F, and obscured by the ribbon cable is an IDE and FDD header, in that order from left to right.

66Mhz was the sweet spot for VLB. Some cards can go a bit funny after that, Although I would thing your safe the the Mach32. I would bet the onboard I/O is also VLB so should be a very nice 486 when done.
I would also say DX2-66 VLB was THE 486.
With all that said I would go with the POD. even though I didn't, but thats purely for nostalgic reasons.

As you intend running up a 133ADZ as well I would focus this on earlier games where Adlib/SB Pro compatibility is more important and the 133 can focus on more modern SB16/AWE games. (really the speed difference is pretty small but gives each PC a purpose)

One problem with a modern case is you will have to modify the case to fit an AT style motherboard. But if that densest bother you maybe you will even be able to get a bit of cash for the case if you sell it. AT cases are becoming very hard to get for a good price.

I'm still using my AT PSU's, but will swap out for a modern one without even thinking once either starts playing up.

Oh, and installing Dos + Win3x is a pleasure with the gotek the drive is still limited to floppy speeds, but without any disk read errors its a nice steady pace. I'd even say it was kind of fun?

chinny22 wrote:

One problem with a modern case is you will have to modify the case to fit an AT style motherboard. But if that densest bother you maybe you will even be able to get a bit of cash for the case if you sell it. AT cases are becoming very hard to get for a good price.

I'm still using my AT PSU's, but will swap out for a modern one without even thinking once either starts playing up.

Picked up one ATX > AT converter already, so I'll have one on hand. And for modifying cases, I've done it before. Might not be pretty, but functional, and even deburred so I don't cut myself open on edges. Once a computer tastes your blood, it's never the same...

Oh, and installing Dos + Win3x is a pleasure with the gotek the drive is still limited to floppy speeds, but without any disk read errors its a nice steady pace. I'd even say it was kind of fun?

I'll need to figure out what I'm going to do for media - I thought I had a cache of diskettes, but I haven't uncovered it yet. Looking forward to using the Gotek, but I need images to feed it too (other than FreeDOS, etc.).

Picky motherboard, won't even try to POST if, say, an HDD cable is inverted... :7

Got my SDRAM order in from Mouser (32Kx8 12ns mentioned elsewhere in the forums), and fired her up with only HDD attached. Boots, loads CD and mouse drivers... then loads Windows 3.1. 😁

Now, being the digital voyeur I am, I poked around a bit. Found an install of Word Perfect (anyone else miss WP?) and found a number of documents, including what appears to be a 30ish page autobiography. A quick check of online obits, and the former owner appears to have passed away in '07. Well, crap, now I've done it; I feel somewhat obligated to try to find remaining family and see if they want copies of any of these files...... 😦

Hi there,

Even though 6 years ago, I think necro-ing is valid since we have a full manual for this board now:
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/daewoo-cpc-2800#docs

Appendix B is where the board description begins