VOGONS


First post, by ruthan

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Hello,
i have problem that pure DOS 7.1 see only first FAT32 partition, not second. Windows 98 see both.

You can see partition map here, from linux Gparted.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ng3s99kusixqkpk/z40 … ionMap.png?dl=0

Where is problem?
Has to be second FAT32 partition - DATAW9x or second place in partition list (physically as second partition on disk) or i need fiddle with primary HDD slots magic, or 46 GB partition is too much for Dos 7 to handle and there is 32 GB limit? Does disk mapper hang up in partition recognition processor because second partition is NTFS? Some knowledge needed.

Last edited by ruthan on 2018-06-29, 16:14. Edited 1 time in total.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 1 of 11, by Tiido

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

This can happen if the partitions aren't made by DOS tools, apparently most tools do not align the partitions to certain positions that DOS excpects and problems start. Not sure if NTFS partition in the middle causes issues or not, it isn't something I havne done myself. HDD size is not a limit.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 2 of 11, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I would also suspect the NTFS partition in the middle as a possible cause of issues. I'd suggest to repartition the drive so that the FAT32 partitions come first.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 3 of 11, by ATauenis

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

DOS have some troubles in using more than one Primary partition. The HDD for DOS must be partitioned as 1 Primary partition (C:) and 1 Extended partition with all other Logical partitions. Partitioning with more than one Primary partitions (even if they're not Active) is not recommended due to DOS limitations. Windows is using own disk driver stack and can use more than one Primary partitions even when they are inaccessible in DOS.

2×Soviet ZX-Speccy, 1×MacIIsi, 1×086, 1×286, 2×386DX, 1×386SX, 2×486, 1×P54C, 7×P55C, 6×Slot1, 4×S370, 1×SlotA, 2×S462, ∞×Modern.

Reply 4 of 11, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

That might be also true. It looks from the screenshot like both FAT32 partitions (and the NTFS in between) are defined as 'Primary'. In that case, one may want to repartition it in a way that all extra FAT32 logical partitions are inside the first Extended partition. But will that prevent booting other OSes?

I assume this limitation (single primary partition) applies to Win98 DOS ("DOS 7") as well? Are there known workarounds?

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 5 of 11, by chinny22

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Agree with everything above. for best compatibility I would partition as follows
Primary partition, Win98SD (will show as c:\)
Allocate the rest of the drive as an extended partition and create the following logical drives
Logical drive 1, Win9x data, (will show as d:\)
Logical drive 2, XP-New (will show as e:\
Logical drive 3, W7-x64 (will show as f:\)

The NTFS drives don't really need to be contained within the extended partition, but it does make things more simple.
XP and W7 can be swapped around if you want them on different drive letters.

If you keep fat drives higher in the list you will avoid drive letters getting swapped round the NTFS based OS's
eg if you make Win9x data the 3rd logical drive in XP and 7 it will show as f:\ but Win98 will "ignore" the 2 NTFS drives and will show it as d:\

dr_st wrote:

I assume this limitation (single primary partition) applies to Win98 DOS ("DOS 7") as well? Are there known workarounds?

I know the partition magic boot loader would allow you to have 2 primary partitions and select the active partition from within the menu. This allowed you to have more then 1 version win9x installed. We used this back in the early 2000's for testing

Reply 6 of 11, by ruthan

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Thanks for suggestions, i check on my other computer were second FAT32 partition is visible..

Here is partition map for that machine: // I dunno why Gparted is not working with this pc, its searching and searching..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4062lh4k98w35dj/Dis … itions.PNG?dl=0

Hammer time - Myth busting..
1) Problem are not NTFS partition of their order before FAT32
2) Problem is not more than 1 primary partition, unless other one its FAT32 - in that case is ignore
3) Linux partitions are ok too
4) Even 118 GB FAT32 partition size is still ok - detected
5) Solution is that other FAT32 has to be in extend partition - for now its now clear, if that case you can have 1 or 2 FAT32 working partition in extended partition

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 7 of 11, by ruthan

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Ok i tested my theories and its working, i was right.

Conversion that second primary FAT32 took 30 seconds with Minitool free version (some other tools - Paragon etc. do lots of unnecessary things to it could take much longer), because it was next to already existing extended partition.

New partition map:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/43pcof44rpvaym3/Hpz … -After.png?dl=0

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 8 of 11, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

So the conclusion seems to be:
* You can have any number of primary partitions, but DOS will only see the first FAT/FAT32 primary partition (ignore the rest, whether they are FAT32 or not).
* The order of logical volumes inside the extended partition does not matter - DOS will see any logical FAT/FAT32 volumes inside the extended, and none of the rest.

Did I capture it correctly?

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 9 of 11, by Cyberdyne

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

DOS 7.0 does not see FAT32 at all, only DOS 7.1

I am aroused about any X86 stuff that has full functional ISA stuff. I think i have problem.

Reply 10 of 11, by ATauenis

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
dr_st wrote:
So the conclusion seems to be: * You can have any number of primary partitions, but DOS will only see the first FAT/FAT32 primar […]
Show full quote

So the conclusion seems to be:
* You can have any number of primary partitions, but DOS will only see the first FAT/FAT32 primary partition (ignore the rest, whether they are FAT32 or not).
* The order of logical volumes inside the extended partition does not matter - DOS will see any logical FAT/FAT32 volumes inside the extended, and none of the rest.

Did I capture it correctly?

Yes, exactly.

2×Soviet ZX-Speccy, 1×MacIIsi, 1×086, 1×286, 2×386DX, 1×386SX, 2×486, 1×P54C, 7×P55C, 6×Slot1, 4×S370, 1×SlotA, 2×S462, ∞×Modern.

Reply 11 of 11, by tayyare

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
dr_st wrote:
So the conclusion seems to be: * You can have any number of primary partitions, but DOS will only see the first FAT/FAT32 primar […]
Show full quote

So the conclusion seems to be:
* You can have any number of primary partitions, but DOS will only see the first FAT/FAT32 primary partition (ignore the rest, whether they are FAT32 or not).
* The order of logical volumes inside the extended partition does not matter - DOS will see any logical FAT/FAT32 volumes inside the extended, and none of the rest.

Did I capture it correctly?

As far as I know, DOS can see upto 4 primary partitions. And I was pretty sure it can see at least 2, by experience. This is interesting, need to check myself.

GA-6VTXE PIII 1.4+512MB
Geforce4 Ti 4200 64MB
Diamond Monster 3D 12MB SLI
SB AWE64 PNP+32MB
120GB IDE Samsung/80GB IDE Seagate/146GB SCSI Compaq/73GB SCSI IBM
Adaptec AHA29160
3com 3C905B-TX
Gotek+CF Reader
MSDOS 6.22+Win 3.11/95 OSR2.1/98SE/ME/2000