VOGONS


Reply 20 of 25, by wiretap

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aries-mu wrote:
wiretap wrote:

Just as an example of cost.. At work I had to get a motherboard (industrial 486 in a data recorder) reverse engineered and built from scratch since there were none remaining on the planet we could find. It ended up costing around $45k for the board, and $20k for the engineering costs. This was done by Paragon.

😳 😳 😳 😳 😳
Man! What job do you have??? Sounds FANTASTIC!

Computer engineer at a nuclear plant. It is far from fantastic 🤣.

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Reply 21 of 25, by anthony

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wiretap wrote:

Just as an example of cost.. At work I had to get a motherboard (industrial 486 in a data recorder) reverse engineered and built from scratch since there were none remaining on the planet we could find. It ended up costing around $45k for the board, and $20k for the engineering costs. This was done by Paragon. This was actually cheap compared to some of the other components I've had them reverse engineer.

They designed and manufactured chipset for mobo too? It unbelievable low price for that kind of job

Reply 23 of 25, by wiretap

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anthony wrote:
wiretap wrote:

Just as an example of cost.. At work I had to get a motherboard (industrial 486 in a data recorder) reverse engineered and built from scratch since there were none remaining on the planet we could find. It ended up costing around $45k for the board, and $20k for the engineering costs. This was done by Paragon. This was actually cheap compared to some of the other components I've had them reverse engineer.

They designed and manufactured chipset for mobo too? It unbelievable low price for that kind of job

Some parts that were still obtainable (new old stock) were used. I believe that the chipset was one of those pieces. But I have had Paragon completely engineer other IC's.. which costs $100k+. But I'd agree -- for a home user (even with bulk ordering for retro-enthusiasts), the price is unobtainable to justify it. My company actually bought the rights to Eberline's SS1 computer & software which runs an IBM Artic Card (ISA interface).. we had one of those completely reverse engineered as well, which was around $2M.

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Reply 24 of 25, by NamelessPlayer

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This is reminding me of those Amiga 4000 motherboard reverse-engineering projects, which have now borne fruit in terms of a digital schematic for the Revision B board as well as attempts at building new replacement boards like the A4000+.

Getting to that point took like $5,000 in donations just to get a working example reverse-engineered, though, and producing the PCBs can't be cheap. Then there's the matter of how the AGA custom chips are long out of production, likely requiring cannibalization from existing A1200 or A4000 boards. Not even those diehard Amiga enthusiasts with deep pockets can afford the sorta quotes that wiretap's hinting at for this.

Small wonder why retrocomputing is moving to FPGAs now; it's easier to work with those off-the-shelf than to try and convince a foundry to manufacture obsolete ASICs. Heck, you can get even better results if the Apollo Vampire is any indication.

It's far less likely to happen for IBM PC-compatibles, as they're cheap, common hardware with readily available replacements, or so the market would have you think. Even vintage Macs are relatively easy to find parts for, due to their sheer proliferation for something that isn't PC-compatible. Amiga, Atari ST, X68000, FM Towns, or anything Silicon Graphics, though? Sorry about your wallet.

Reply 25 of 25, by kev

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NamelessPlayer wrote:
This is reminding me of those Amiga 4000 motherboard reverse-engineering projects, which have now borne fruit in terms of a digi […]
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This is reminding me of those Amiga 4000 motherboard reverse-engineering projects, which have now borne fruit in terms of a digital schematic for the Revision B board as well as attempts at building new replacement boards like the A4000+.

Getting to that point took like $5,000 in donations just to get a working example reverse-engineered, though, and producing the PCBs can't be cheap. Then there's the matter of how the AGA custom chips are long out of production, likely requiring cannibalization from existing A1200 or A4000 boards. Not even those diehard Amiga enthusiasts with deep pockets can afford the sorta quotes that wiretap's hinting at for this.

Small wonder why retrocomputing is moving to FPGAs now; it's easier to work with those off-the-shelf than to try and convince a foundry to manufacture obsolete ASICs. Heck, you can get even better results if the Apollo Vampire is any indication.

It's far less likely to happen for IBM PC-compatibles, as they're cheap, common hardware with readily available replacements, or so the market would have you think. Even vintage Macs are relatively easy to find parts for, due to their sheer proliferation for something that isn't PC-compatible. Amiga, Atari ST, X68000, FM Towns, or anything Silicon Graphics, though? Sorry about your wallet.

and we now can use G3/G4/8xxx PPC on classic amiga if you have a mediator pci bus board then you can play quake3 openarena etc 😀
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76633&page=121