VOGONS


First post, by Ozzuneoj

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I do a lot of harvesting from scrap lots, so I have a lot of parts that have had rough lives. I like to get them working if possible.

I'm sure that people more experienced in this field will already be familiar with this, but lately I have been noticing SMD caps failing in ways I wouldn't expect.

The other day I replaced a whole bunch of SMD electrolytic caps (not solid polymer caps, I don't think) on an ASUS Geforce 256 because they all had these odd white swirly lines all over the sides and top. It almost looked as if someone drizzled the tiniest line of white glue on them, but there's no reason anyone would do this, and it was all around each tiny capacitor. It was ONLY on the capacitors too. I replaced them and the card still doesn't work, so I'll have to investigate further...

Today however, I had a Geforce 3 Ti 500 that had a missing heatsink, missing bracket and a tiny busted SMD cap. I replaced the cap and it still wouldn't work (no display at all). The only other possible issue I could find with it was that the two large 82uf 16v SMD caps (which I'm pretty sure are solid polymers, since they have odd ratings) had what looked like a whitish film or tarnish all over them.

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The rest of the card does not appear to have been exposed to water, because there was still dust in all the places the cooling fan would have put it. So, I figured, why not replace them? I didn't have matching poly caps, but I read online that poly caps should generally have 1/3 the capacitance rating of a standard low-esr electrolytic (I don't know the reason, I've just read this multiple times). I figured I'd wing it and do the opposite and get whatever cap I have that's close to 3x the rating of the poly caps, so found a couple of low-esr 220uf 16v SMD caps I bought recently. I replaced them and it works now! 😲

Are there any engineers out there that can explain what is going on here and why we're seeing failures like this? I know that no capacitor can really be "perfect" but I was under the impression that solid polymer caps couldn't really "leak" and were extremely reliable. So what is happening here? These would be from the early 2000s capacitor plague era, but I've never heard of solid caps being effected by this.

Also, I'll try to get a picture of a capacitor with that crazy white frosting drizzle thing on the other non-polymer SMD caps too... it is quite hard to describe.

Last edited by Ozzuneoj on 2019-02-22, 19:49. Edited 5 times in total.

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 1 of 5, by Ozzuneoj

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Here are some caps that have that strange white drizzle on them. I'm not 100% sure but I think this board came from a guy that had them stored in his basement in a tote for many years. Probably not a dry environment, but not actually *in* water either. This board actually works fine by the way. 😕

Even the Sanyo OSCON caps have that weird crusty drizzle on the top. That's not dust and it doesn't come off.

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Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 2 of 5, by cyclone3d

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Kinda looks like either oxidation or possible fungus caused corrosion.

Either is likely in a damp environment.

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Reply 3 of 5, by retardware

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Interesting observations!
Well, I am wondering for a while now what's the reason for the Macs' plastics deterioration, which I believe is a somewhat related topic.

Anyway, in these photos there seems also some phenomenon which triggers this kind of decomposition. Looks like some highly viscose substance leaves the caps.
I know the problem of plastics rot quite well, it happened more often with Soviet bloc style plastics. When triggered, it is unstoppable. The plastics emanate a very creepy oily substance. Wiping off is of no use. One only can live with it or throw that stuff away, which is preferable as this kind of plastics rot is infectious to susceptible plastics.

So I guess this might be either some component of the plastics (polymer) mix dissipating, or the polymers themselves decompose. And that substance is either acidic or itself or promotes corrosion in conjunction with other factors.
Think of the well-known fact that plastics (organics) are a feasting ground for bacteria and molds, which themselves produce acidic stuff, leading to corrosion creeping even under plastics surfaces (last pic).

Reply 4 of 5, by Ozzuneoj

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Thanks for the replies guys! Just wanted to add, I left the Ti 500 running a game for half an hour after running 3dmark2001se and it still works fine. I can't say how reliable it will be long term, but in a pinch replacing a failed solid poly cap with a good quality standard low esr cap seems to work... in this case, swapping a 220uf in place of an 82uf.

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 5 of 5, by SirNickity

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I've never seen anything like that. Having ordered a lot of stuff from southern US sellers, where there's considerable humidity, I'm used to receiving musty goods that need a thorough bath and a few days in dry climate before they stop smelling like an old mobile home. But, infectious rotting plastic -- that's a new one to me. Reminds me of a strange CD rot that I saw online a couple years ago. Some kind of bacteria was eating the silver substrate on optical discs. Kinda looked like an ant farm had made a home for itself between the polycarbonate layers.

Truly, from dust to dust.