VOGONS


First post, by s.mouse

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Hey Guys,

I have tested and documented performance of 5 various elusive socket 4 motherboards I have collected and posted results below. Rocking 3 different chipsets just to make things interesting. As a comparison I have added in Benchmark results from my fastest AMD X5 133Mhz motherboard as well as an Intel DX4 100Mhz. I am yet to get my grubby mits on an Opti based board, but hope to get a hold of one someday; I’m very interested to see how poorly they actually perform, as from what I’ve read they are not especially fast. I do own a socket 7 Opti Viper motherboard and although I love it of course, it benchmarks the slowest of all the chipsets I have tried.

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The socket 4 boards I own so far are as follows. It has taken a while to find them for a somewhat "reasonable" price.

-Dell P60/L (Intel 430LX)
-Intel Batman (Intel 430LX)
-Pine Technologies PT-726 (Intel 430LX) Sorry haven't included this board in benchmarks but it benchmarks slower that the other LX boards and marginally faster than the Ali and Sis, i think the default cache timings which cant be adjusted are not that good.
-DFI E586IPE (Intel 430LX)
-ECS/ Elitegroup SI5PI (SIS 501/ 502 and 503 chips)
-Chicony CH1451A (ALi M1451 and M1448 chips)

-Cache and memory timing have been adjusted to fast as possible and stable enough to run through all benchmarks on boards that allow tuning. The Dell, Batman and Pine technologies have no bios settings relating to performance what so ever that can be adjusted I guess they may be OEM parts. Despite this this the Dell and intel batman boards are quite fast, they basically match the DFI 430LX board which has all tuning options as fast as possible. The DFI, ECS and Chicony bards have tuning options.

The benchmarks have been completed with a 60Mhz chip as well as a 66Mhz chip

I also own a socket 4 Pentium overdrive 133Mhz. Let me know if you guys would are interested in benchmarks for that

For benchmarking I have used Phils Dos benchmark pack. Shout out to Phil and thanks for the great information and videos as always

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My conclusion is the Pentium 60Mhz and 66Mhz at the time of release (1993) was an absolute beast, The IPC gain was very impressive. Blowing away the fastest 486 DX2 66mhz of the time. It’s between 25% and 100% faster than the DX2 depending what test, excluding quake which is almost 3 x faster on the pentium. Looking at later pentium 1's the performance/ FPS per Mhz is comparable so the chipsets really are not as bad as they general consensus around them is notably the 430LX.

In comparison to the socket 3 platform the 60Mhz Pentium is slightly faster that a DX4 100 but its takes an AMD 5x86 X5 133Mhz to trade blows with the mighty 66Mhz chip. Keeping in mind the X5 is over 2 years newer and twice the clock speed. Taking Quake out of the equation the X5 is marginally faster overall and can beat the Pentium in most tests. Then come the quake benchmark, with the Pentiums powerful FPU and quake optimisations is easily leaves the X5 in the dust.

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As for heat and poor stability which these early 5 volt Pentium have bad reputation for, my experience has been quite good. Yes they are somewhat hotter but by the standards set a few years later its really not a big deal. For the time they certainly would’ve seemed a lot hotter as everyone would’ve been use to 486 chips which either didn’t have heatsink/ fan and if they did they were tiny. The intel chipset itself gets a bit warm, I probably wouldn’t run the system on a hot day without a fan blowing over them in fear of something failing. Stability wise all the chipsets seem quite stable. I have used the Dell system quite extensively; playing though Warcraft 2 and beyond the dark portal campaigns under windows 95 from start to finish and the system hasn’t skipped a beat. i am quite fond of the dell

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For more photos follow google drive link https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OMbkNdtkSJh … izcHRgZda2xy3_t

Thanks for reading guys (: let me know your thoughts

Reply 1 of 36, by Anonymous Coward

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The ALi board is hilarious. It looks like a 486 motherboard.

Too bad you didn't throw any VLB P66s into the mix. 😁

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 2 of 36, by dionb

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Interesting results, particularly the big difference between gaming/DOS 3D, won clearly by the Intel chipsets, and Topbench and Speedsys, giving far more mixed results. It would be very interesting to see some more low-level benchmarks of various subsystems (RAM, cache, HDD) to see what's driving the overall results. I'm particularly surprised by the relatively bad performance of the SiS501, as it supports EDO where the i430LX only can do FP, so should get a mem performance boost.

That of course begs the next question: which RAM did you use on the SI5PI - EDO or FP? If FP, it would be interesting to see what it could do with EDO.

Reply 3 of 36, by Anonymous Coward

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Err...I don't think these boards support EDO. EDO was a Triton thing, was it not?

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 4 of 36, by dionb

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Anonymous Coward wrote:

Err...I don't think these boards support EDO. EDO was a Triton thing, was it not?

For Intel yes, but SiS501 does, that was the whole reason for that chipset - feature-parity with i430LX but adding EDO support.

Reply 5 of 36, by s.mouse

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dionb wrote:

Interesting results, particularly the big difference between gaming/DOS 3D, won clearly by the Intel chipsets, and Topbench and Speedsys, giving far more mixed results. It would be very interesting to see some more low-level benchmarks of various subsystems (RAM, cache, HDD) to see what's driving the overall results. I'm particularly surprised by the relatively bad performance of the SiS501, as it supports EDO where the i430LX only can do FP, so should get a mem performance boost.

That of course begs the next question: which RAM did you use on the SI5PI - EDO or FP? If FP, it would be interesting to see what it could do with EDO.

I might have to investigate theses low level tests. From memory on paper the other chipsets looked quite competitive - the memory bandwith speedsys returns looked comparable to the Intel. Even the bandwidth to the VGA memory looked decent. Despite this the results speak for themselves. I have a feeling it might be the early PCI implementation which Intel clearly nailed. As you can see the SiS chipset is extremely fast once PCI clock has been raised maybe this tells us something.

As for the memory I used FP RAM, I don't remember seeing any setting for EDO in the BIOS but now I'm curious and will have a look and let you know. I wasn't aware it may support EDO which interesting

Reply 6 of 36, by s.mouse

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Anonymous Coward wrote:

The ALi board is hilarious. It looks like a 486 motherboard.

Too bad you didn't throw any VLB P66s into the mix. 😁

Yeah it was actually listed as a 486 pentium motherboard on ebay. Noticed it was socket 4 so had to have it.

I wish i had a VLB board but alas i have only ever seen 1 for sale on ebay in a number of years. It was expensive and in very poor condition and sold as is. From what i believe VLB boards use a chip to bridge the pci to VLB which degrades performance considerably

Reply 8 of 36, by dionb

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s.mouse wrote:

[...]

I might have to investigate theses low level tests. From memory on paper the other chipsets looked quite competitive - the memory bandwith speedsys returns looked comparable to the Intel. Even the bandwidth to the VGA memory looked decent. Despite this the results speak for themselves. I have a feeling it might be the early PCI implementation which Intel clearly nailed. As you can see the SiS chipset is extremely fast once PCI clock has been raised maybe this tells us something.

As for the memory I used FP RAM, I don't remember seeing any setting for EDO in the BIOS but now I'm curious and will have a look and let you know. I wasn't aware it may support EDO which interesting

Right, after a bit of work my Asus PCI/I-P5SP4 (SiS501) is up and running reliably, so I decided to check this one myself.

Using default 'auto' settings, I quickly ran Chrisbench and Cachecheck (not the best benchmarks, but what I had at hand).

2x 16MB FP: 72.8 in Chrisbench, 36.7MB/s in Cacehcheck
2x 16MB EDO: 73.3 in Chrisbench, 36.7MB/s in Cachecheck

So the SiS501 certainly supports EDO, but unless you need to tweak BIOS hard to get the added value out, it's not going to help improve performance. I share your suspicion it's the PCI bus limiting real-world things here.

Reply 9 of 36, by alvaro84

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I have a Digital Celebris 560/566 board (VLSI chipset) right here on my desk now. I've run a few benchmarks and despite using a very fast PCI Riva128 VGA it's quite behind compared to these systems.

At 66MHz it gave me 67.0fps in 3Dbench, 48.6fps (81.1 points) in Chris' bench and 19.8fps in PCP bench.
At 60MHz it gave me 38.26fps in Doom, 17.9 in PCP bench, 60.5 in 3DBench, 47.4fps in Chris' bench and 15.8fps in Quake (12 with GUS sound).

I'm not really impressed, it doesn't have any timing option in the BIOS and it's very picky about the RAM. It supports EDO but I don't think it makes good use of it (just look at the results). And I couldn't get it running with 4 pieces of 8-MiB modules so it runs with 24MiB of RAM now. It was fine with 2x32MiB but it looked boring and "too much".

But hey, it's still a fun unique piece of hardware with two different sockets (S4 and S5) and different cache modules for the two. And an extra VRM for S5.

Edit. It seems to more like "tolerate" EDO RAM than "supporting" it. I've run a number of benchmarks with both memory types and there's nothing in favor of the EDO sticks, the results are mostly identical or even the FPM results are a bit faster - well within the margin of error.

Last edited by alvaro84 on 2019-04-30, 04:25. Edited 3 times in total.

Shame on us, doomed from the start
May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts

Reply 10 of 36, by BinaryDemon

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I'm curious about the 133mhz overdrive but I'm most interested in - how much (if any) does the Socket4 chipset hold-back a 133mhz Pentium OverDrive compared to a standard Socket7 133mhz Pentium?

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https://sites.google.com/site/dosboxdistro/ [*]

a lightweight Linux distro (tinycore) which boots off a usb flash drive and goes straight to DOSBox.

Make your dos retrogaming experience portable!

Reply 11 of 36, by dionb

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Depends on the chipsets. My guess would be that PODP133 performance on i430LX would be very similar to a P133 on an i430NX chipset (as unlike with So3 overdrives the So4 bus is basically the same as the So5/7 bus), but the i430NX was slooow, at least in memory performance - a 30% slower than i430FX with asynch and only just half the performance vs i430FX with PLB.

Reply 12 of 36, by mpe

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Reviving this interesting thread as I have a special love for Socket 4 systems.

I found this ALI1451/M1449 A3 based motherboard.

The chipset can actually handle EDO RAM (unlike i430LX) which gives it a modest boost.

Aafter a bit of tweaking I found that my scores are actually a bit higher than the top Socket 4 board from your list.

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Blog|NexGen 586|S4

Reply 14 of 36, by dionb

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mpe wrote:
Reviving this interesting thread as I have a special love for Socket 4 systems. […]
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Reviving this interesting thread as I have a special love for Socket 4 systems.

I found this ALI1451/M1449 A3 based motherboard.

The chipset can actually handle EDO RAM (unlike i430LX) which gives it a modest boost.

When I put two EDO modules and 66 MHz CPU and after a bit of tweaking I found that my scores are actually a bit higher than the top Socket 4 board from your list.

DSC_0524.jpg

That's a really clean, beautiful board. Never seen the ALi So4 chipset benchmarked before, nice to see it perform so well 😀

Reply 15 of 36, by pyrogx

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I have one of these Socket-4 VL bus boards, an ASI MB-5DVP. It must be the slowest Pentium board ever made (P66, 32MB fast-page RAM, ET4000W32p VL graphics card):
SSc 1.0c: 52.5 fps
Chris3D VGA: 44.1 fps
Chris3D SVGA: 10.2 fps
PCPlayer VGA: 16.0 fps
PCPlayer SVGA: 6.2 fps
DOOM (max details): 30.7 fps
Quake VGA: 16.2 fps

Reply 16 of 36, by feipoa

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Do, both, the SiS and ALi socket 4 boards support EDO memory? And what is the performance increase for DOOM and Quake when using EDO vs. FPM? What happens if you try to use EDO on the Intel Batman board?

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 17 of 36, by s.mouse

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Wow thats a nice board <3 <3 any chance your could post your results?

mpe wrote:
Reviving this interesting thread as I have a special love for Socket 4 systems. […]
Show full quote

Reviving this interesting thread as I have a special love for Socket 4 systems.

I found this ALI1451/M1449 A3 based motherboard.

The chipset can actually handle EDO RAM (unlike i430LX) which gives it a modest boost.

When I put two EDO modules and 66 MHz CPU and after a bit of tweaking I found that my scores are actually a bit higher than the top Socket 4 board from your list.

DSC_0524.jpg

Reply 19 of 36, by dionb

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auron wrote:

why does it appear as if the chipset on the middle left board is composed of 5 chips instead of 4?

It's an EISA board, that extra chip is the EISA controller.