VOGONS


First post, by athlon-power

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Today has been an extremely eventful day involving my main vintage computer build, regarding multiple issues that have cropped up in less than 24 hours. I'll explain them, and the background of them, here, because I am totally out of ideas. I have zero clue as to what could be causing these issues.

The background behind the first problem is as follows:

In a thrift store, I found an unlabeled external DVD+RW/CD+RW drive that was beige, and it was a full 5.25" bay model. I bought it, because I'd been looking for a DVD-ROM drive (at the least) that had a beige front panel. I took it apart, and took out the drive itself, which was a standard 5.25" IDE drive. The drive identifies itself as a Ricoh Company RW5120A. It worked great until today; It read all CDs quite a bit faster than the 48x CD-ROM drive I was using before, and it even read a DVD re-release of Myst perfectly well, so it read CDs and DVDs. Earlier today, I installed InterVideo WinDVD, to see if I could play any DVD movies on it. When reading any of the DVD movies I tried to play, the system would just reboot- not even properly. The screen would go black, and it go through POST and boot again.

I assumed this was a problem with Windows 98. I was wrong. I have re-installed it, and now the problem persists with CDs, as I found to my disdain that it did the same exact thing when trying to pull drivers off of a known working, clean driver CD a few minutes ago. This problem started occurring before the second issue began.

The background behind the second problem is as follows:

I bought a Creative Labs CT5823 TNT2 based 32MB AGP video card from 1999 a few days back. The heatsink was attached to the video chip using thermal glue. Up until today I had left it alone, but I decided that I needed to change out the thermal paste (and, in this case, the heatsink), so I heated it up with some Quake III Arena at ridiculously high settings, turned the PC off, removed the card, and was able to pry it off of the board with a decent snap. I installed a new heatsink that had matching plastic mounting brackets (if you look at the card online, you'll find that it had mounting holes for heatsinks already there, even though it used a small one with thermal glue), and it worked perfectly when booting up. I installed Windows 98 (I had nuked the prior installation because of the DVD issue), and everything worked great until I tried to install the nVidia Detonator 2.08 drivers, and the drivers installed successfully, but then the system locked up when rebooting on the Windows 98 boot screen. Even the reset button didn't do anything- the system only blacked the screen out, but it remained locked up.

Then, it wouldn't POST at all. This same exact issue happened with my Tabor III, so I took out the 128MB PC133 RAM stick I had in it and installed a 256MB RAM stick. The system then beeped as if there was no RAM at all. So then I installed the RAM stick in a different slot, and the system POSTed. I thought I had a dead 128MB RAM stick, but just to be sure, I cleaned the contacts on the 128MB RAM stick and put it in, and it worked- sort of. The system semi-POSTed, but locked up on the BIOS screen with little red dots everywhere. So I go, OK, I must have killed the video card when I changed heatsinks. But After some more fiddling that I can't remember too well right now because I was panicking, it booted up just fine. I ram MEMTest 86, and the 128MB stick was completely okay. I was able to get into Windows 98 from there, and I ran the Quake III benchmark from that Quake III thread on here, and it ran great, and ran a full 3Dmark99MAX benchmark, again, it worked great, with no issues. I then tried to re-install Windows 98 twice, and both times it would lock up while rebooting at various points in setup. I re-changed the thermal paste on the video card, thinking it may have been overheating, and Windows 98 (FE) setup was able to complete just fine.

The system seemed to be doing great (at no point have I seen graphical corruption anywhere again), but when I inserted the audio driver CD for my Cobra AW744L-II, the DVD issue came back with a nasty vengeance.

As a result of all this, I cannot tell if:

- I killed my video card slightly in some way.
- My DVD drive has broken from trying to read a DVD movie, even though it worked with the Myst DVD version just fine before.
- If my motherboard is failing somehow. I checked all of the capacitors today, and they looked just fine, but all of these strange issues coming up at once is making me severely paranoid. I bought the motherboard from eBay for US$40 a couple of months ago- I will not be able to buy one again if it is dead, because the price has skyrocketed to US$150+.

Where am I?

Reply 1 of 20, by chrismeyer6

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Have you verified that your PSU is OK and providing proper voltages. Have you tried the DVD drive and video card in other systems to rule them out and the problem?

Reply 2 of 20, by athlon-power

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chrismeyer6 wrote:

Have you verified that your PSU is OK and providing proper voltages. Have you tried the DVD drive and video card in other systems to rule them out and the problem?

I don't have a multi-meter, so verifying PSU voltages is a little more tedious. I'll grab an old copy of SpeedFan (the old versions show the PSU voltages), and see what's up with that. If the voltages are really funky, I've got far too many old Dell systems that I can use for parts.

I am unsure, but I think if I had damaged the video card by removing the heatsink, that it wouldn't function at all. The big danger with removing thermally-glued heatsinks is ripping the BGA chip off of the PCB, and I believe that if I had done that, the thing wouldn't POST at all, let alone manage to go through 3DMark99MAX with no graphical glitches, and do the same with Quake III.

Where am I?

Reply 3 of 20, by athlon-power

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Well, I think I've found the root of at least a few issues.

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This is strange, because last time I checked this thing, the voltages were nearly perfect. I'll change it out with another PSU I have and see if anything improves.

But some of these voltages are extremely out of spec. That might be part of my problem, if not completely responsible for my problem.

Where am I?

Reply 5 of 20, by athlon-power

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I put in the PSU I was using for my second Pentium III build, and it is showing the same exact voltages. The CD drive on that build is also very flaky at copying files from burned CDs.

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I don't understand this. These are both very similar kinds of PSUs- both of them are from Dell Optiplex systems ca. 2003. These are the only 20-pin PSUs with an acceptable 5V rail rating I have, really. What are the chances that two different PSUs experienced the exact same kind of failure?

Where am I?

Reply 6 of 20, by chrismeyer6

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With the readings being similar it could just be the hardware monitor chip isn't very accurate with is fairly common. Can you try the DVD drive and the video card in your other p3 system and see if you still have problems. Also make sure your CMOS battery is in good shape some motherboards can act very strange when they get low.

Reply 7 of 20, by athlon-power

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chrismeyer6 wrote:

With the readings being similar it could just be the hardware monitor chip isn't very accurate with is fairly common. Can you try the DVD drive and the video card in your other p3 system and see if you still have problems. Also make sure your CMOS battery is in good shape some motherboards can act very strange when they get low.

The hardware monitor in this system is fully accurate; I've looked at that same program with more successful results before. This was a PSU unit I had for a little bit that no longer seems to function.

Re: Need help identifying a PSU.

I don't know if I should use the same PSU I was using before in the other PIII system when testing the other parts.

Also, my CMOS battery is a brand new Energizer model that I bought when I first bought the SE440BX-2 motherboard so I could change the battery when it arrived, so I know the CMOS battery is good.

Where am I?

Reply 9 of 20, by athlon-power

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I realized that I was using a different version of SpeedFan than the one I'm using now, so I've went ahead and downloaded the older version to see if newer versions might be incompatible with the hardware monitor.

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Reply 11 of 20, by athlon-power

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Now it's displaying voltages that are closer to what they should be.

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So I definitely won't be using the 2011 version to try and figure out voltages on PSUs, it seems to be somewhat broken. I'll compare these voltage results to the ones from the other PSU and see if I see anything significant.

Where am I?

Reply 13 of 20, by athlon-power

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chrismeyer6 wrote:

Sounds good. Is the system still performing stabily ?

It seems to be stable right now, but that doesn't mean the thing won't hard reset whenever I insert a DVD or a CD that it won't be happy with. The video card side of things seems to be doing great- it's just the DVD thing that still seems to be an issue, though I have yet to try and incite that bug.

[EDIT]

Here are the voltages for the other PSU.

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Last edited by athlon-power on 2019-04-14, 01:02. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 15 of 20, by athlon-power

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chrismeyer6 wrote:

Kind of a long shot but I had a similar issue in the past with a bad idea cable the caused my machine to lock up when unused my CD drive

This IDE cable is the same one I used with my other CD drive, and I never noticed any problems that weren't specific to that CD drive. It might be the cable, but I'm not sure.

I just tested it, and it works with one other DVD I tested- but with one specific disc, it crashed the entire system again. So the problem does persist. I'm not sure what's causing this, as it works fine with another DVD, but the one DVD I remember it crashing with has crashed it consistently. I will now place this disc in my main computer and see what occurs, to rule out the possibility that the disc is somehow the cause of the problem.

[EDIT]

The disc works just fine on my main computer.

[EDIT 2]

I decided to grab another random IDE DVD drive I have and plug it in on top of the DVD drive I am using to see if the disc would play.

It worked just fine, and it took a fraction of the amount of time it takes for the other DVD drive to read a DVD before playing it. So, the issue definitely lies within that specific DVD drive. Is there any way I could fix this? It would be a real shame to have to go back to square one as far as DVD readers go for that machine.

Where am I?

Reply 16 of 20, by athlon-power

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Because I discovered that it was the drive itself, not the PC, I decided to take it apart and clean the lens in it with rubbing alcohol and a Q-tip. It read CDs perfectly well, and it even read the working DVD faster than it had before- but, again, the second DVD caused the system to halt and reboot.

I have tired Stephen King's The Stand Disc 1, that is the one that functions. Disc 2 is the disc that halts the system completely. I am unsure of what to do, as I have already cleaned the lens of the DVD drive. Are there any other troubleshooting steps I can take with this thing at all? Or is it a lost cause?

Disc 2, by the way, works in other DVD drives.

Where am I?

Reply 18 of 20, by athlon-power

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chrismeyer6 wrote:

That's a really strange issue. Maybe see if you can find a firmware update for the drive

Success! It took me a minute of digging for the firmware (and, indeed, two fishy files eliminated by Malwarebytes), and I upgraded the internal firmware from 1.32 to 1.92. Both DVDs load in WinDVD correctly now.

I'm just lucky that I didn't end up scratching the lens and ruining the drive for no good reason. I was worried that even a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol would be too abrasive, but it loads CDs and DVDs just fine.

On a side note, I really hate how hard it can be to find drivers, and when you finally do, 40% of the time they're strange file formats that end up being riddled with adware or some crap.

Where am I?