canthearu wrote:

GigAHerZ,

So XT-IDE didn't work for your particular configuration and now you are upset and want to run a smear campaign against it? You do seem to be looking for reasons to hate it.

Quite noticeable, isn't it? 😁

canthearu wrote:

I do understand, XT-IDE doesn't always work in all situations and with all hardware combinations. But it is another tool in the tool-kit for keeping old systems running well. I prefer it over ezdrive, but I'd use ezdrive happily in situations where xtide doesn't work, like on motherboard that do not correctly implement boot BIOSes, or in your case, if it wasn't being reliable.

Exactly, I keep EZ Drive boot disk in a locker under my desk just in case...

canthearu wrote:

The 1KB of conventional memory lost isn't usually enough to cause actual problems that you can't work around with loading your other drivers UMA. This also means XTIDE works well on 286 and XT systems where EZDrive would chew up a larger chunk of conventional memory.

Well like I said before this memory usage is configure-able - you can turn it off if you don't need more than 2 controllers and IBM ROM Basic.

canthearu wrote:

Your hate for XT-IDE is like hating a 12mm Socket wrench because the bolts you need to turn on a particular job are 1/2 inch. Just use the correct tool, and leave the other tools in the toolbox for next time 😀

I suspect he didn't even tried to use XT-IDE... you know... THE HASSLE with Ethernet card and burning your own EEPROMS ;]

HanJammer wrote:

I suspect he didn't even tried to use XT-IDE... you know... THE HASSLE with Ethernet card and burning your own EEPROMS ;]

Lets not understate the complexity of it though for a casual tinkerer. You are looking at $50 or so minimum for the EEPROM burner as well as researching the right chips and setting XT-IDE up and the ethernet card up properly.

I've cooked an EEPROM putting it the wrong way into a socket as well, so definitely possible to screw it up 😀

XT-IDE is a very neat and permanent way of adding large drive support to an old system, but it is isn't generally a simple plug and play solution.

Everybody knows you use a 13mm socket on a 1/2" bolt. The OP is rright you don't need to fit EZDrive to each system for it to boot that cf card, hdd or what ever. The 4gig drive with DDO that works on my 386 works on my 286. Sure if you have penty of available nics use them. I had a friend burn some xt-ide eproms as I don't have a programmer or a stash of eproms. I haven't even needed to use them yet.

As for 2.88meg fdd support that is irrelevant in most cases anyway and was primarily an IBM PS/2 thing. Even IBMs later systems never shipped with 2.88meg fdds. Same goes for 4 hdd controllers, not really relevant in most cases. You can use mTCP suite without using xt-ide bios at all if you have a nic so that's a strewman. As for EZDrive losing data or not accessing it on another system is just hogwash and most sensible folk will backup there hdd up anyway. If they don't they are stupid. Of course you are going to have a DDO disk handy as it comes with the territory. As for drive setting using EZDrive, just set the drive type to 2 and you are done. Simple as that, no chs values to set.

It really comes down to personal preference. I use both with a dedicated xt-ide card in my xt because aquiring a MFM is like catching a DoDo and DDO on my 386 because DDO just worked. I have nics in all my old systems.

Caluser2000 wrote:

I use both with a dedicated xt-ide card in my xt because aquiring a MFM is like catching a DoDo

I have both an MFM drive and xt-ide in my XT class machine ... was able to just catch that DoDo and get the old MFM hard drive working. Buy 20meg just doesn't go very far, so that is why I also have a CF card on an xt-ide card 😀

Lol yeah 20megs is certainly not enough. My first 286/16 had a 40meg IDE hdd. Learnt very quickly it was too small and added a 240meg drive a year later which saw me well into the 90s with different mobos.

Being able to simply move a drive from 1 system to another to transfer data to it is certainly a major bonus for XTIDE, as has been stated already. I also use the serial boot feature a lot on my XT, very useful with PC Booters. Plus you can use the Serial Hard Drive feature, for expanding storage. Can come in handy when you're limited to something like a 20MB MFM Hard Drive.

A major area where XTIDE wins over any DDO, is for booting certain other operating systems. A big example, Windows NT 3 & 4 (maybe OS/2 also?) will not boot with a DDO installed at least I've never managed it. But XTIDE handles it like a champ.

Good point. But I personally would not run NT on anything less the a Pentium 120 with 32megs of ram, so bigger/faster drives can usually be used as well as boot CDs. I've OS/2 v3 with v4 server network client on a 486DX2/66 with 16megs of ram. It's not the fastest. Probably similar to win95B I'd say. Was testing out some old 2-6gig hdds on my P1 166 testing setup with 32megs of ram and one had Warp 3 on it and it flew. Weird setup using tcpip and netware over parallel.

People, we should be struggling together.

[in a headlock] We are!

No, we should be rising up against the common enemy.

The Judean People's Front?

No, no, the Romans!

It's funny, how people bring out features, that both XT-IDE has and EzDrive has, yet bring them out as an argument for XT-IDE and against EzDrive. (Like for example moving drive from one computer to another) Yet are ignoring the actual differences that are not shining too good light on XT-IDE itself. (Consumption of conv. memory, messing around with physical hardware, etc.)

... and then i get accused being upset or having agenda.

Good game, really, guys.

If you want to argument based on your feelings instead of actual facts, you don't have to post here...

I made this thread to honestly undestand, where the XT-IDE fits into, and you guys are not helping. You are only creating drama. Please do it somewhere else. (Everybody knows themselves, of whom i'm talking about)

canthearu wrote:

Lets not understate the complexity of it though for a casual tinkerer. You are looking at $50 or so minimum for the EEPROM burner as well as researching the right chips and setting XT-IDE up and the ethernet card up properly.

I CAN'T IMAGINE having any 'vintage stuff' related hobbies without proper tools and at least basic knowledge... You know, If you have 30+ years old car as a hobby - you probably should drive around with a multimeter, bottle of oil and different fluids and a basic set of wrenches... then if you play around with old hifi stuff, then maybe some basic tools for calibrating a phono needle are in place... Do you like vintage clothing? Sewing toolbox and sewing skills are necessary...
In the retro computing hobby EPROM burner, multimeter, soldering station and skills to use them ARE A MUST. If somebody doesn't want them then maybe he/she should just rely on DOSBox or PCem and save yourself and anybody else a trouble 😁

canthearu wrote:

I have both an MFM drive and xt-ide in my XT class machine ... was able to just catch that DoDo and get the old MFM hard drive working. Buy 20meg just doesn't go very far, so that is why I also have a CF card on an xt-ide card 😀

Yeah... same here. Almost but 1 MFM harddrives I bought (by accident - I havn't looked for them, they were just installed in some PCs I bought) is in a working condition including some strange Microscience hard cards. On the other when it comes to IDE hdds from this era or even later (ekhm Caviar ekhm) with voice coil heads then there is a 50% chance they won't work no longer...

hmmm, speaking of old IDE drives, I have a 40meg IDE drive and a 50meg IDE drive. Both actually work.

The 40meg drive came from a friend, thing came out of a pharmacy originally, worked absolutely perfectly.

The 50meg drive came from a old 286 I bought from gumtree. Computer looked like it had sat in a shed for years, but suprisingly enough, with an enormous amount of screeching and noise, the actually came to life again and still works. I did use it for a bit, but the loud bearings (this is a quantum drive, perfectly normal for annoyingly loud bearings) was starting to drive me batty, so I put XT-IDE in the system and put one of my 250gb WD drives in, which operate nearly silently.

letting compatibility issues aside, you have to take in account that, if someone decides to make an ezdrive-like open source clone, you should be able to add cd, serial, network and even usb boot. also, in certain usage scenarios is better to use ezdrive. like in a laptop or when you cannot add the xt ide bios (don't have a nic that supports rom, don't have a eprom programmer or even a eprom)

each option has it's downsides and advantages, the best you can do is test each option correctly and take your own conclusions, which one adjusts more to your needs.

everyone has a different experience regarding the topic