VOGONS


Reply 20 of 33, by AJ49er

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Okay, so I've tried a few things out...

1. Fdisk /mbr – “error reading fixed disk. The master bookt code has not been updated”
2. Wipedisk and then fdisk /mbr directly after – “the master boot code has not been updated”
3. Mhdd – Reading through the documentation it looked like this wouldn’t work in a 486. After running it anyway I got the message “Need Pentium-compatible CPU”. Is there a specific version for 486 CPUs?
4. Linux commands – I’m not familiar with linux, do you have a recommended set up and is there any documentation for me to get this working in DOS? I tried to us mulinux, but I need to wait for my floppy disks to come as the gotek has a maximum of 1.39mb

Reply 23 of 33, by derSammler

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Warlord wrote:

not sure if it's relevant but older harddisk drives were not IDE. People just call things IDE now but maybe your harddisk controller is to blame.

It's more the other way around. People continued to use the term "IDE", even though there was no IDE anymore when it became ATA-1 in 1990.

The term MFM/RLL isn't correct either. These are encoding schemes that were used for IDE, ESDI, and SCSI drives for years as well. MFM/RLL does not refer to an interface. The interface is ST-506 (MFM) / ST-412 (RLL).

Reply 24 of 33, by AJ49er

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It's a Seagate Medalist ST31082A which I think is ATA3. I'll hopefully have both the floppy discs and hard drive to usb cable no later than Wednesday which should allow me to try a few more of your suggestions. For now, no luck correcting the HDD sadly

I haven't ruled out the controller, I have another controller coming likely next week shortly so will try the HDD with that if everything else fails.

Reply 25 of 33, by Grzyb

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derSammler wrote:

The interface is ST-506 (MFM) / ST-412 (RLL).

Both ST-506 and the original ST-412 are MFM.
The difference is that the former is without buffered seek, and the latter with buffered seek.

In both interfaces the data is transferred in analog form, so in theory it's possible to use any of them with any data encoding - FM, MFM, RLL, ARLL, GCR...
In practice, when RLL appeared, all the drives were already with buffered seek, ie. ST-412 like.
And ARLL appeared even later.

Nie tylko, jak widzicie, w tym trudność, że nie zdołacie wejść no moja górę, lecz i w tym, ze ja do was cały zejść nie mogę, gdyż schodząc, gubię po drodze to, co miałem donieść.

Reply 26 of 33, by Caluser2000

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derSammler wrote:
Warlord wrote:

not sure if it's relevant but older harddisk drives were not IDE. People just call things IDE now but maybe your harddisk controller is to blame.

It's more the other way around. People continued to use the term "IDE", even though there was no IDE anymore when it became ATA-1 in 1990.

IDE is clearly writen on the interface boards and later near the mobo hdd connectors right up to when SATA was introduced.

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2019-07-09, 03:12. Edited 1 time in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 27 of 33, by Caluser2000

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AJ49er wrote:

Okay, so I've tried a few things out...
4. Linux commands – I’m not familiar with linux, do you have a recommended set up and is there any documentation for me to get this working in DOS? I tried to us mulinux, but I need to wait for my floppy disks to come as the gotek has a maximum of 1.39mb

Would'nt bother with muLinux. There are one-three floppy linux tools available. If your system doesn't boot off cdroms you can use PLOP, even on a 486. Not looking good though.

What is the system specs you were trying to get the drive sorted on?

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 28 of 33, by derSammler

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Grzyb wrote:

Both ST-506 and the original ST-412 are MFM.

The point is that RLL was introduced for the ST-412 interface. There never was an RLL-capable ST-506 controller. Of course, back then the interface was just called "Winchester", but that's a different story. 😉

Caluser2000 wrote:

IDE is clearly writen on the interface boards and later near the mobo hdd connectors right up to when SATA was introduced.

Which doesn't make it any more correct. IDE saw its end with the 504 MB limit, since IDE remained register-compatible with ST-506 and had to adhere to its limits. Also, "IDE" was not even an official term back then. Western Digital invented that, not knowing whether it should stand for "Integrated Drive Electronics" or "intelligent Drive Electronics". When it became a common standard in 1989/90, breaking old ST-506 limits, it got officially called "ATA-1".

Yes, the term "IDE" was in continuous use till the very end, but that doesn't make it right. It's just the lazyness of people to change their behaviour, and there are many other examples of that.

Reply 30 of 33, by solraeck

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AJ49er wrote on 2019-07-09, 16:53:

So I got my IDE to usb cable today and did a surface test on the HDD...just over 2000 bad sectors...I think I've found the problem

So what happened dude??? I'm on the EXACT same situation; I have a SEAGATE MEDALIST 1GB installed on a 486DX under MS-DOS 6.22, after formatting the disk I will only be able to use 504MB, although at the BIOS is actualy detected as 1048MB.

LBA mode says "on" but once the computer is booted into DOS, it will act as if the HDD is 504MB. The HDD works perfect, I have DOS, Sound Blaster, Mouse, CD ROM, lots of games installed and it will work just fine. No errors or whatsoever.

The problem is that is only HALF its capacity and I don't know how to solve it. I haven't tried none of the exposed here yet but I was hoping to read the final resolution before start touching the thing.

WHERE YOU ABLE TO REPAIR BAD SECTORS AND RECOVER LOST SPACE?!?!?!?!?

Cyrix 80486DX 80Mhz, 32mb RAM, 1024kb Trident VGA, Sound Blaster 16, 4GB HDD, 3 1/2 floppy disk drive + Creative CD-ROM drive unit.
Intel 80386 DX 40Mhz, 8MB RAM, Trident VGA 256kb, Sound Blaster 16 CT 2950, 525MB HDD, 3 1/2 floppy, 52x CD-ROM .

Reply 31 of 33, by kevmif

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solraeck wrote on 2021-08-07, 06:00:
So what happened dude??? I'm on the EXACT same situation; I have a SEAGATE MEDALIST 1GB installed on a 486DX under MS-DOS 6.22, […]
Show full quote
AJ49er wrote on 2019-07-09, 16:53:

So I got my IDE to usb cable today and did a surface test on the HDD...just over 2000 bad sectors...I think I've found the problem

So what happened dude??? I'm on the EXACT same situation; I have a SEAGATE MEDALIST 1GB installed on a 486DX under MS-DOS 6.22, after formatting the disk I will only be able to use 504MB, although at the BIOS is actualy detected as 1048MB.

LBA mode says "on" but once the computer is booted into DOS, it will act as if the HDD is 504MB. The HDD works perfect, I have DOS, Sound Blaster, Mouse, CD ROM, lots of games installed and it will work just fine. No errors or whatsoever.

The problem is that is only HALF its capacity and I don't know how to solve it. I haven't tried none of the exposed here yet but I was hoping to read the final resolution before start touching the thing.

WHERE YOU ABLE TO REPAIR BAD SECTORS AND RECOVER LOST SPACE?!?!?!?!?

I highly doubt the OP bothered trying to repair a drive with that many bad sectors.
In your case, what does fdisk say when you check the partition information?

Have you tried running something like Norton Disk Doctor (part of the Norton Utilities suite)?

Reply 32 of 33, by Jo22

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derSammler wrote on 2019-07-09, 07:01:
The point is that RLL was introduced for the ST-412 interface. There never was an RLL-capable ST-506 controller. Of course, back […]
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Grzyb wrote:

Both ST-506 and the original ST-412 are MFM.

The point is that RLL was introduced for the ST-412 interface. There never was an RLL-capable ST-506 controller. Of course, back then the interface was just called "Winchester", but that's a different story. 😉

Caluser2000 wrote:

IDE is clearly writen on the interface boards and later near the mobo hdd connectors right up to when SATA was introduced.

Which doesn't make it any more correct. IDE saw its end with the 504 MB limit, since IDE remained register-compatible with ST-506 and had to adhere to its limits. Also, "IDE" was not even an official term back then. Western Digital invented that, not knowing whether it should stand for "Integrated Drive Electronics" or "intelligent Drive Electronics". When it became a common standard in 1989/90, breaking old ST-506 limits, it got officially called "ATA-1".

Yes, the term "IDE" was in continuous use till the very end, but that doesn't make it right. It's just the lazyness of people to change their behaviour, and there are many other examples of that.

In old PC magazines from the 80s, IDE types were also previously described as "AT-Bus" hard disks.
Or was it fixed-disk drives? 😉

Anyway, this ancient term quickly gave way for IDE and then E-IDE.
By the turn of the millennium, I heard "ATA" more often, until it was replaced by "PATA".

I'm speaking under correction, but I think it roughly was '91-'92 when "AT-Bus" as a term got phased out.
And in 1994-1997, "E-IDE" as a term was popular. I like to imagine, it was used as a catch phrase by all these hot-rod 486 VLB PC enthusiasts at the time. 😁
IDE then became kind of a generic term that encapsulated all ATA revisions.

Edit: Ah, I see. The posting I quoted was from last month, but two years ago.
So never mind. 😀

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 33 of 33, by solraeck

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kevmif wrote on 2021-08-07, 06:39:
I highly doubt the OP bothered trying to repair a drive with that many bad sectors. In your case, what does fdisk say when you […]
Show full quote
solraeck wrote on 2021-08-07, 06:00:
So what happened dude??? I'm on the EXACT same situation; I have a SEAGATE MEDALIST 1GB installed on a 486DX under MS-DOS 6.22, […]
Show full quote
AJ49er wrote on 2019-07-09, 16:53:

So I got my IDE to usb cable today and did a surface test on the HDD...just over 2000 bad sectors...I think I've found the problem

So what happened dude??? I'm on the EXACT same situation; I have a SEAGATE MEDALIST 1GB installed on a 486DX under MS-DOS 6.22, after formatting the disk I will only be able to use 504MB, although at the BIOS is actualy detected as 1048MB.

LBA mode says "on" but once the computer is booted into DOS, it will act as if the HDD is 504MB. The HDD works perfect, I have DOS, Sound Blaster, Mouse, CD ROM, lots of games installed and it will work just fine. No errors or whatsoever.

The problem is that is only HALF its capacity and I don't know how to solve it. I haven't tried none of the exposed here yet but I was hoping to read the final resolution before start touching the thing.

WHERE YOU ABLE TO REPAIR BAD SECTORS AND RECOVER LOST SPACE?!?!?!?!?

I highly doubt the OP bothered trying to repair a drive with that many bad sectors.
In your case, what does fdisk say when you check the partition information?

Have you tried running something like Norton Disk Doctor (part of the Norton Utilities suite)?

After coming and going with FDISK and a weird simple tool that I've found on internet (DELPART.EXE) I was able to fully delete all partitions and create new 1GB partition from scratch using FDISK.

It has some bad sectors but after hours of SCANDISK I was able to isolate them in order not to be used.

Thanks anyway!

Perhaps I'll read you in my next problem (trying to identify a 386 motherboard hahah)

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Cyrix 80486DX 80Mhz, 32mb RAM, 1024kb Trident VGA, Sound Blaster 16, 4GB HDD, 3 1/2 floppy disk drive + Creative CD-ROM drive unit.
Intel 80386 DX 40Mhz, 8MB RAM, Trident VGA 256kb, Sound Blaster 16 CT 2950, 525MB HDD, 3 1/2 floppy, 52x CD-ROM .