dr_st wrote:

I use VIDE-CDD with MSCDEX. MSCDEX is not so heavy once you use /E and some say it has better compatibility than SHSUCDX (I have […]
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keenmaster486 wrote:

Vide-CDD and SHSUCDX instead of OAKCDROM and MSCDEX

I use VIDE-CDD with MSCDEX. MSCDEX is not so heavy once you use /E and some say it has better compatibility than SHSUCDX (I haven't tested).

keenmaster486 wrote:

CTMOUSE instead of MS Mouse Driver

Using that.

keenmaster486 wrote:

SBMIX for changing SB mixer settings without TSR

Which SB? PnP Creative SB cards use MIXERSET which is not a TSR.

how much conventional does MSCDEX use with /E?

It may depend on exact system. On my system (K6-2 CPU, 2 CD drives) it takes 16KB of upper memory (which would be conventional if I didn't have enough upper memory).

I just tried on my config with just 1 cd drive with the /E switch on mscdex:
MSCDEX: upper memory used 104kb
SHSUCDX: upper memory used 83kb
Obviously I have other stuff loaded but I changed just this one.

I also tried the new doskey, unlucky it's heavier than the version provided with dos 7.1, where can I find the so called recall.com?
Thanks.

dr_st wrote:

It may depend on exact system. On my system (K6-2 CPU, 2 CD drives) it takes 16KB of upper memory (which would be conventional if I didn't have enough upper memory).

thanks, that's still double SHSUCDX though

I know people say there are programs that aren't compatible with SHSUCDX but I've yet to come across one

Nemo1985 wrote:

I also tried the new doskey, unlucky it's heavier than the version provided with dos 7.1, where can I find the so called recall.com?
Thanks.

Everything I'm referring to, I'm getting from here:
http://www.mdgx.com/dos.htm
You can Ctrl+f search the word "replacement" and find most everything that you can simply rename and overwrite the original with, while the rest of the system is none the wiser.

rishooty wrote:

Everything I'm referring to, I'm getting from here: http://www.mdgx.com/dos.htm You can Ctrl+f search the word "replacement" and […]
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Nemo1985 wrote:

I also tried the new doskey, unlucky it's heavier than the version provided with dos 7.1, where can I find the so called recall.com?
Thanks.

Everything I'm referring to, I'm getting from here:
http://www.mdgx.com/dos.htm
You can Ctrl+f search the word "replacement" and find most everything that you can simply rename and overwrite the original with, while the rest of the system is none the wiser.

Thank you very much, changing from doskey to recall made me save roughly 2kb of upper memory.

Nemo1985 wrote:

rishooty wrote:

Everything I'm referring to, I'm getting from here: http://www.mdgx.com/dos.htm You can Ctrl+f search the word "replacement" and […]
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Nemo1985 wrote:

I also tried the new doskey, unlucky it's heavier than the version provided with dos 7.1, where can I find the so called recall.com?
Thanks.

Everything I'm referring to, I'm getting from here:
http://www.mdgx.com/dos.htm
You can Ctrl+f search the word "replacement" and find most everything that you can simply rename and overwrite the original with, while the rest of the system is none the wiser.

Thank you very much, changing from doskey to recall made me save roughly 2kb of upper memory.

Can someone clarify if recall.com does autocomplete? The webpage is not specify.

Doesn't look like it does: https://www.pcorner.com/list/UTILITY/RECALL11.ZIP/INFO/

[EDIT] It looks like the best setups are between PhilsComputerLab and Axcel216:
http://www.mdgx.com/mem7.htm
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/ms-dos-starter-pack.html

With phil's being especially minimal. I guess this narrows my questions even further.

1. Can XMGR completely replace HIMEM, since there's been no real compatibility investigation on the Jack Ellis drivers.
2. VIDECDD.SYS or XDVD2.SYS to replace oakcdrom.sys?
3. Is disk caching even worth the memory (given phil's lacks it)? If so, keep SMARTDRV.EXE or replace with XHDD?

We know that: SHSUCDX, 4DOS, HIMEMX, UMBPCI, and JEMM386 can cause issues. SHSUCDX has utility being loaded separately however, for its ability to load iso files. We also know that replacements wouldn't be preferred if the take up more memory.

After those 3 are answered, I can probably start putting something together.

What's the issue with himemx? I missed the memo on that one. I have used it for ages on 98 and DOS without issue (that I'm aware of) so far.

videcdd.sys > oakcdrom.sys

i made this thread ahwile back ago and it just got lost.
USB DOS mouse driver to load before ctmouse if you have a usb mouse.
Also link to USB dos drivers package. and other useful programs by bret johnson
USB DOS Drivers

I've never had an issue with vIdecdd.sys
regarding shsucdx you might find older versions more compatible with older hardware and software. you could even try the orginal version John mccoy or jason hoods versions and see if they have better compatibility. jack ellis version is a fork.

I just want to point that out, but expand on it that alot of older dos drivers and programs were written for old hardware and software compatibility, freedos and newer drivers and programs are not specifically written to run on ancheint hardware. its like how newer linux distros dont run well on old hardware.

kolderman wrote:

What's the issue with himemx? I missed the memo on that one. I have used it for ages on 98 and DOS without issue (that I'm aware of) so far.

Not much other than being less compatible. Nobody refers to it directly, but rather freedos's memory management as a whole. The reason I'm singling out xmgr is that its almost exclusively used with umbpci, even though it can be used by itself or with emm/jemm..

maxtherabbit wrote:

videcdd.sys > oakcdrom.sys

Nice to know videcdd is a guarantee, still curious if xdvd is better.

Warlord wrote:

i mad this thread ahwile back ago and it just got lost so here it is. USB DOS Drivers […]
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i mad this thread ahwile back ago and it just got lost so here it is.
USB DOS Drivers

I've never had an issue with vIdecdd.sys
regarding shsucdx you might find older versions more compatible with older hardware and software. you could even try the orginal version John mccoy or jason hoods versions and see if they have better compatibility. jack ellis version is a fork.

I just want to point that out, but expand on it that alot of older dos drivers and programs were written for old hardware and software compatibility, freedos and newer drivers and programs are not specifically written to run on ancheint hardware. its like how newer linux distros dont run well on old hardware.

That sure explains a lot of why all of these powerful replacements have compatibility issues with a good chunk of games. I don't quite have a machine yet to experiment with, I've been messing with virtual box until all my upgrades show up for my compaq deskpro en. I'm mostly looking for the best balance between "best performance" and "doesn't break anything". So far that seems to look like videcdd, xmgr or himemx, not touching emm386, command.com, or mscdex, and everything else being free game so long as it uses less or as much memory.

kolderman wrote:

Can someone clarify if recall.com does autocomplete? The webpage is not specify.

No autocomplete with recall.com it's just a less memory hungry version of doskey

I did some other little improvements to my cfg.sys and autoexec.bat, now I have: 626kb of conventional memory free and 140kb of upper memory free.

Any advice for further improvement?
Thanks

Nemo1985 wrote:

No autocomplete with recall.com it's just a less memory hungry version of doskey […]
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kolderman wrote:

Can someone clarify if recall.com does autocomplete? The webpage is not specify.

No autocomplete with recall.com it's just a less memory hungry version of doskey

I did some other little improvements to my cfg.sys and autoexec.bat, now I have: 626kb of conventional memory free and 140kb of upper memory free.

Any advice for further improvement?
Thanks

Try xdvd instead of videcdd and xhdd instead of smartdrv. Honestly I think axcel216's config I posted is the highest memory count you can get, he just does it at the expense of not using some of the nicer replacements.

I guess the questions are too complicated to just ask enmasse and expect to get answers for all of them. Changing focus yet again, what games are so sensitive that they simply won't run with replacements, like those with freedos? I figure I should just make a dos pcem and test it myself.

No one have spoken about qemm yet. Is it any better than other mentioned memory managers ?

what about the one from dr-dos

Deksor wrote:

No one have spoken about qemm yet. Is it any better than other mentioned memory managers ?

QEMM has some of the best features and could often get you the most usable upper memory blocks comparing to other memory managers. Its compatibility is also on par with MS EMM386 from my experience.

However, it has a built-in XMS driver that looks outdated and couldn't properly handle large memory. Not sure if there's a way to disable its built-in XMS driver (that you can load your own), or replace it with better ones like HIMEMX or XMGR.

From what I've tested back then, the maximum possible XMS QEMM can handle is 256MB on some chipsets. For all chipsets, the safe limit (and the limit which MS-DOS MEM command could correctly report) is 64MB.

QEMM's memory manager is definitely known to have issues. Also its more of a set of tools rather than just a manager, some people like using it for its "optimize" replacement for memmaker: Which memory manager is better? Memmaker, QEMM or 386max.

Also, I've finally found out what dos loads by default. My windows installs kept having blank autoexec.bat, config.sys, and msdos.sys, so I couldn't get any real target for what I would be potentially improving out of the box after an install.

I installed MS-DOS 6.22 in PCEM, and the default loaded files were:

• HIMEM
  EMM386 if you say yes to EMS in memmaker
  SMARTDRV

And that's it. Then combine that with phil's MS-DOS starter pack:

• HIMEM
  EMM386
  MSCDEX
  VIDECDD
  CTMOUSE

and we have our targets for slipstreaming:

• HIMEM --> XMGR, HIMEMX, PC-DOS HIMEM, DR-DOS HIMEM (all need testing)
  EMM386 --> QEMM(?), PCDOS EMM386, DR-DOS EMM386 (all need testing)
  MSCDEX --> Don't change
  SMARTDRV --> XHDD(needs testing)

[EDIT] Saw the latest post on QEMM. Huh, good to know that there's a possible viable EMM386 replacement.

[EDIT2] Finally, this video by phil cleared everything up for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGmCVeAKR4w

Summary:

• wing commander privateer - crashes with jemm386
  tomb raider - no cd digital audio
  screamer 2 - issues reading the cd
  SoftMPU - only compatible with original emm386 or QEMM 7.03
  descent 2 - no cd digital audio
  the need for speed - issues reading the cd
  XDVD has issues with a few games, videcdd is where it's at.
  Turns out "What issues does HimemX have?" is right. There seems to be no issues with replacing himem in general.

[EDIT3]
XHDD/UIDE does have issues Smartdrv.exe Alternatives

Looks like a himem replacement is the only pre-loaded file worth doing. Everything else outside of the above list seems safe.

Wow thank you for the testing!
I have a question, why do you suggest to keep mscdex instead of SHSUCDX? Did it showed any issue?
In the meanwhile I followed your last advice and I have been able to achieve some other upper free memory using xhdd and xdvd2.

If you like me to test any game feel free to ask, I'm doing the tests with a Asus p55t2p4 with p233 mmx, virge video card and 256mb of memory.

rishooty wrote:

Summary: […]
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Summary:

• wing commander privateer - crashes with jemm386
  tomb raider - no cd digital audio
  screamer 2 - issues reading the cd
  SoftMPU - only compatible with original emm386 or QEMM 7.03
  descent 2 - no cd digital audio
  the need for speed - issues reading the cd

That's why. Phil reported issues with UDVD/XDVD, SHSUCDX, and JEMM386 as being the main culprits of freedos's compatibility issues.

[EDIT] To be fair though, some of the compatibility reports I'm posting are from 2016 or older. XDVD2 and XHDD probably have improved lots since then.