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SATA2PATA adapters experience

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Reply 20 of 52, by douglar

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Here is what I've seen for Sata IDE Bridges

IDE Controller to SATA Drives
JM330 -- I don't have one of these

JM20330

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IDE/SATA DOF

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The performance between adapters using these chips was within the margin of error in my testing. (Tested using speedsys)
I've seen it implemented lots of different ways:

  • 40 pin female to Sata cables
  • 40 pin male to Sata connector
  • mSata to 44 Pin Male
  • M2 NGFF Sata to 40 Pin Male

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I've only seen this in the plastic encased module that has 40 pin female, Berg power connector, Sata cable in, Sata Cable out
Performed 5-10% slower than the JM20330 or IDE/SATA DOF

For the DOMS, I've seen 2 controller chips:
SM223TF that supports up to UDMA4

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EN2232T that supports up to UDMA6. Had some compatibility issues with some early EIDE controllers, but fine with original ATA or UDMA5 controllers

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Last edited by douglar on 2020-12-03, 13:50. Edited 5 times in total.

Reply 21 of 52, by gdjacobs

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matze79 wrote on 2019-09-26, 16:12:
Use old Sandforce SSDs, they don`t need TRIM and wear leveling works well, also garbage collection is pretty good. They also com […]
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Blzut3 wrote:

My personal experience with the cheap China adapters is that they work fine* for hard drives, but an SSD will be unbearably slow within a few days of usage. Perhaps mine is a dud, but honestly at this point in my life I'd rather just spend the $20 to have a known good controller with the Startech IDE2SAT2.

* I only tested for a few days before I just decided to pay for the Startech and never looked back.

Use old Sandforce SSDs, they don`t need TRIM and wear leveling works well, also garbage collection is pretty good.
They also compress every piece of data to save writes. And but less stress on cells

I use one in Apple Mac G5 and also on P3 with Windows 98.. runs very good, with some newer SSDs i had curious problems... eg ultra slow..

I've not really found a reason to switch to SSD when a modern SATA disk will vastly outperform period hardware and push the limits of a UDMA100 port.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 22 of 52, by The Serpent Rider

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I've not really found a reason to switch to SSD

Simple. Dramatically better access time and read/write speed on random small blocks. And HDD sequential read/write speed could be easily below ATA100 speed near the inner edge of platter.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 23 of 52, by Joseph_Joestar

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gdjacobs wrote on 2020-12-02, 15:22:

I've not really found a reason to switch to SSD when a modern SATA disk will vastly outperform period hardware and push the limits of a UDMA100 port.

Not counting speed, silent operation is another big advantage that SSDs have. Even modern SATA HDDs can get pretty loud. And I don't mean while reading/writing data, just the noise that they produce by spinning.

I have both a Samsung SSD (for the OS and games) and a Western Digital Blue HDD (for file storage) in my WinXP rig. Power settings make the HDD spin down after 5 minutes of inactivity. The rig becomes much quieter after that happens.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 24 of 52, by gdjacobs

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-12-02, 17:15:
gdjacobs wrote on 2020-12-02, 15:22:

I've not really found a reason to switch to SSD when a modern SATA disk will vastly outperform period hardware and push the limits of a UDMA100 port.

Not counting speed, silent operation is another big advantage that SSDs have. Even modern SATA HDDs can get pretty loud. And I don't mean while reading/writing data, just the noise that they produce by spinning.

That's a fair enough point, although I have a number of drives which are very quiet just as I have some which sound like jet turbines spooling up.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 25 of 52, by RichardG867

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I've once tried double-bridging a SATA DOM on my PC-Chips M748MR board flashed with an Award BIOS from another board. It didn't go well, even with the original (32 GB limited) AMI BIOS. The adapter is a red PCB bi-directional AliExpress special with the D0F bridge, and the DOM is a 4 GB Apacer (taken from a Wyse thin client) with the JMD330 bridge.

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Reply 26 of 52, by douglar

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RichardG867 wrote on 2020-12-03, 00:15:

I've once tried double-bridging a SATA DOM on my PC-Chips M748MR board flashed with an Award BIOS from another board. It didn't go well, even with the original (32 GB limited) AMI BIOS. The adapter is a red PCB bi-directional AliExpress special with the D0F bridge, and the DOM is a 4 GB Apacer (taken from a Wyse thin client) with the JMD330 bridge.

So you have a DoF adapter that goes from a sata drive to an IDE controller? I have not seen one. Are you able to post a pic?

I've seen some DoF adapters that have 40 pin female, but I thought those were designed to sit on a motherboard. Didn't think they would let you go from a sata motherboard to an IDE drive. But then I never tested to see if it would work.

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Reply 27 of 52, by RichardG867

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douglar wrote on 2020-12-03, 01:52:

So you have a DoF adapter that goes from a sata drive to an IDE controller? I have not seen one. Are you able to post a pic?

Looks exactly like this. I have successfully used it both ways, with an 80 GB Hitachi SATA drive on two IDE boards (SiS 620 and VIA 686B), and a 40 GB Maxtor IDE drive on a modern SATA system (AMD B450).

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Reply 29 of 52, by kolderman

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RichardG867 wrote on 2020-12-03, 04:38:
douglar wrote on 2020-12-03, 01:52:

So you have a DoF adapter that goes from a sata drive to an IDE controller? I have not seen one. Are you able to post a pic?

Looks exactly like this. I have successfully used it both ways, with an 80 GB Hitachi SATA drive on two IDE boards (SiS 620 and VIA 686B), and a 40 GB Maxtor IDE drive on a modern SATA system (AMD B450).

This is the one I have always used, both red and black PCB. Works well, no IDE cable required!

Reply 30 of 52, by matze79

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RichardG867 wrote on 2020-12-03, 00:15:

I've once tried double-bridging a SATA DOM on my PC-Chips M748MR board flashed with an Award BIOS from another board. It didn't go well, even with the original (32 GB limited) AMI BIOS. The adapter is a red PCB bi-directional AliExpress special with the D0F bridge, and the DOM is a 4 GB Apacer (taken from a Wyse thin client) with the JMD330 bridge.

Yeah, some Adapters always want to work in fastest UDMA Mode.
I had much Fun with Cheap Bridges.
I now have a Industrial Grade Bridge, which works with all IDE Devices .

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 31 of 52, by darry

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matze79 wrote on 2023-01-08, 14:45:
Yeah, some Adapters always want to work in fastest UDMA Mode. I had much Fun with Cheap Bridges. I now have a Industrial Grade B […]
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RichardG867 wrote on 2020-12-03, 00:15:

I've once tried double-bridging a SATA DOM on my PC-Chips M748MR board flashed with an Award BIOS from another board. It didn't go well, even with the original (32 GB limited) AMI BIOS. The adapter is a red PCB bi-directional AliExpress special with the D0F bridge, and the DOM is a 4 GB Apacer (taken from a Wyse thin client) with the JMD330 bridge.

Yeah, some Adapters always want to work in fastest UDMA Mode.
I had much Fun with Cheap Bridges.
I now have a Industrial Grade Bridge, which works with all IDE Devices .

What chipset do they use ? Could you share a brand/model, please ?

Reply 32 of 52, by matze79

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Hi,

no problem.
i just need to open up my pentium mmx.

here some picture:

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i just need some time to do it!

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 33 of 52, by darry

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matze79 wrote on 2023-01-08, 20:13:
Hi, […]
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Hi,

no problem.
i just need to open up my pentium mmx.

here some picture:
photo_2020-11-24_23-18-25.jpg

i just need some time to do it!

TY. No rush, I'm just curious . I somehow managed to miss this thread during my trial and error runs with various SATA to IDE adapters.

Reply 34 of 52, by LSS10999

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A while ago I found in another post about some kind of SATA-PATA adapters that allows SATA drives to be connected to IDE cables connected to the motherboard. These adapters even have jumpers for Master and Slave and allowed making full use of a single IDE port (up to 2 HDD/SSDs).

While I couldn't find the exact same model utilizing the Marvell 88SA8052, I did find ones using the JMicron bridge, that looked very similar to the one mentioned there. I tried connecting two such adapters (each connects to a SATA SSD) to a single IDE cable, and with correct Master/Slave settings, both disks can be correctly recognized by the motherboard.

I didn't really conduct tests in detail, though, as depending on your PC case it can be very difficult to install and keep the connections firm. The performance and stability should mostly depend on the quality of the adapter as well as the bridge chip itself.

Given all SATA-IDE converters I had prior to these were mostly "bidirectional" ones that supported only one disk at a time, I'm really surprised to find such adapter existed and that such configurations were actually possible.

Reply 35 of 52, by matze79

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The Converter is used in gambling machines / arcade equipment and also industrial machines.
It works even in my 286-10 with SATA Dom .

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Reply 37 of 52, by darry

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matze79 wrote on 2023-01-10, 15:23:

The Converter is used in gambling machines / arcade equipment and also industrial machines.
It works even in my 286-10 with SATA Dom .

Thank you.

Unfortunately it looks like the kind of adapter that I am only likely to find in a decommissioned retrofitted Canon commercial grade copier/printer or something similar, unless I get lucky .

Reply 38 of 52, by douglar

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I found this quote interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/retrocomputing/comme … o_ide_adaptors/

The problem could be that the cheaper adapters just pass the commands through unchanged while the more expensive adapters bother to emulate ATA commands SATA drives are not mandated to support such as CHS commands. If a CHS-only BIOS is used to access the disk, this makes a difference.

I'm assuming the author was talking about the ubiquitous JMicron stata--pata bridges here when talking about the cheap ones. https://www.jmicron.com/products/list/17

What do you suppose the "expensive" adapters are?

I have one of these bi directional devices and it doesn't seem to support CHS. https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/pata2sata3

What about the Marvell 88SA8052 PATA to SATA Bridge - https://www.marvell.com/content/dam/marvell/e … ief-2015-09.pdf
Or the Genesis Logic GL831 - https://www.arrivalelectronics.co.uk/uploads/ … tasheet_103.pdf

Are there other ones?

Reply 39 of 52, by lti

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I've only used one of the cheap JMicron converters. I put it in a laptop with a VIA KN133 chipset (VT8231 southbridge), and it only works in UDMA2. Even then, the write speed was about 6MB/s with a "proper" aligned partition and 20MB/s without aligning the partition.

I would try a converter with a Marvell chip, but the one that will fit in place of a 2.5" hard drive costs more than my entire old computer collection is worth. Maybe the Marvell bridge chips are the "expensive" ones, but I don't remember seeing a full datasheet for them.