Are there any motherboards with official support for an FSB at 133mhz (to Support a 1Ghz Coppermine), At least 1 ISA slot, but an Intel Chipset? (440BX or 815?)
I've got a Jetway 993AN, however that uses a VIA Apollo chipset.
wrote:Are there any motherboards with official support for an FSB at 133mhz (to Support a Slot 1 Coppermine at 1Ghz), At least 1 ISA slot, but an Intel Chipset? (440BX or 815?)
I've got a Jetway 993AN, however that uses a VIA Apollo chipset.
440BX has never officially supported 133 FSB. Many will run fine, but AGP will be overclocked.
I'm not aware if there exists any i815 boards with ISA ..
Please use the "quote" option if asking questions to what I write - it will really up the chances of me noticing 😀
Here is a short thread with a similar subject:
Good Slot 1 Motherboards with ISA and also Supports 133mhz FSB CPU's?
The only board that I know about that comes close to your spec is the Abit SH6 (i815E chipset) but it does not have ISA.
Depending if you ask for official support from motherboard or chipset maker.
While it is true tat Intel never officially supported BX at 133 MHz there were motherboards which semi-officially had the support (Abit BX133-RAID) or at least were designed with 133 MHz FSB in mind.
In fact BX133-RAID had FSB up to 200 MHz in 1 MHz increments. The AGP was out of specs (due to 2:3 AGP/FSB ratio) when running at 133, but most AGP cards handled it well. PCI/ISA was in-spec.
When running a 440BX board at 133MHz, I've found it's more important to make sure the board supports the 1/4 PCI divider than to worry about AGP. Many AGP cards will handle 88MHz, most PCI cards will not handle 44MHz.
wrote:Depending if you ask for official support from motherboard or chipset maker.
While it is true tat Intel never officially supported BX at 133 MHz there were motherboards which semi-officially had the support (Abit BX133-RAID) or at least were designed with 133 MHz FSB in mind.
In fact BX133-RAID had FSB up to 200 MHz in 1 MHz increments. The AGP was out of specs (due to 2:3 AGP/FSB ratio) when running at 133, but most AGP cards handled it well. PCI/ISA was in-spec.
Yes, it seems that the only boards I can find with ISA and an officially supported 133Mhz FSB all use VIA chipsets...
wrote:Here is a short thread with a similar subject:
Good Slot 1 Motherboards with ISA and also Supports 133mhz FSB CPU's?The only board that I know about that comes close to your spec is the Abit SH6 (i815E chipset) but it does not have ISA.
Yeah, the SH6 (which is extremely rare) is probably the only 815/Slot 1 board. I wasn't aware of the Slot 1 requirement.
Please use the "quote" option if asking questions to what I write - it will really up the chances of me noticing 😀
wrote:wrote:Here is a short thread with a similar subject:
Good Slot 1 Motherboards with ISA and also Supports 133mhz FSB CPU's?The only board that I know about that comes close to your spec is the Abit SH6 (i815E chipset) but it does not have ISA.
Yeah, the SH6 (which is extremely rare) is probably the only 815/Slot 1 board. I wasn't aware of the Slot 1 requirement.
Actually yeah, Slot 1 doesn't matter. Just a 1Ghz Coppermine really.
wrote:Yes, it seems that the only boards I can find with ISA and an officially supported 133Mhz FSB all use VIA chipsets...
The 3 boards mentioned in the thread that I posted have VIA Apollo Pro 133A chipset. The Asus P3V4X is some 25% (or more) faster than the Jetway 993AN (I have both boards here) and very stable.
Slightly different tack, but take a look at the Asus P3C-E i820 chipset with RDRAM. Early revisions came with a PCI-to-ISA bridge and ISA slot. It supports AGP 4x and 133MHz FSB. Paired with PC800 RDRAM, its performance is close to that of the i815 or i440BX.
No idea about whether the ISA bridge actually supports DMA properly, but it might be an option.
wrote:Slightly different tack, but take a look at the Asus P3C-E i820 chipset with RDRAM. Early revisions came with a PCI-to-ISA bridge and ISA slot. It supports AGP 4x and 133MHz FSB. Paired with PC800 RDRAM, its performance is close to that of the i815 or i440BX.
No idea about whether the ISA bridge actually supports DMA properly, but it might be an option.
The ASUS P3C-S also has an ISA slot. I recently bought one and paid more than I regularly would for an old motherboard.
(seller's pic)
It has the ITE8888F so it has DMA support for ISA.
Any downsides (late-era DOS-compatibility-wise) of the i820 chipset compared to the i440BX?
For what do you need ISA ? Sound ? There are PCI sound cards which can be used with no trade-offs compared to ISA cards.
Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative
wrote:For what do you need ISA ? Sound ? There are PCI sound cards which can be used with no trade-offs compared to ISA cards.
With the chipset.
Sure but chipset that won't work are much more newer than i815
Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative
I've got a DFI board with 3 ISA slots, AGP and Socket 370 with Tualatin support. It is an Intel chipset, i815, IIRC. Can't remember model name offhand, but will post it if I find it.
wrote:Any downsides (late-era DOS-compatibility-wise) of the i820 chipset compared to the i440BX?
Nope. It's basically the same chipset, just RDRAM memory controller instead of SDRAM, AGP 4x support, ATA-66 or 100 (depending on southbridge) - which is all 'below' BIOS level, so not relevant to DOS, and no native ISA - but that external PCI-to-ISA bridge handles that.
For Win9x it means drivers, but DOS is so primitive it doesn't matter.
I thought those boards sometimes had issues with ISA DMA? Or am I thinking of something else?
wrote:Any downsides (late-era DOS-compatibility-wise) of the i820 chipset compared to the i440BX?
I have a HP (FIC) KC-19+ with i820 chipset and RDRAM - and an ISA bridge. And when I used it with SB16 it seemed to work well but it definitely has issues with GUS, it needs great luck to get DMA working and it may won't after the next power on anymore. If it ran okay with GUS it would be a favorite of mine because it's such an oddball, RDRAM and all. But the way it is it's less than ideal for me.
The performance is not really different btw, except in Doom where it's much slower than Asus P3B-F. I really don't know why and if it's limited to the original mode X Doom then it doesn't even matter as it's maxed out at 35 fps on any P3 anyway.
Btw, not having DMA is not a complete disaster with GUS, it's just half of it. Many programs (usually demos, intros and modplayers) use hardware mixing but when it comes to software mixing and streaming (games usually do this) everything's over, you'll get no sound FX.
So the basis of my permanent P3 build became a VIA based MSI 694T Pro, with a Tualatin P3-S, a total overkill for most DOS anything, with a few exceptions, mostly games at high resolutions and insane things like a few demos with real time ray tracing.
Shame on us, doomed from the start
May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts
wrote:I thought those boards sometimes had issues with ISA DMA? Or am I thinking of something else?
Some late PCI-to-ISA bridges didn't do ISA DMA properly or at all - but cyclone3d indicated that at least the ITE bridge on the Asus P3C-S was fine in that regard.
Just to put it into perspective, PCI-to-ISA bridges aren't anything new, pretty much every board from the first PCI 486 onwards had them. After a while the functionality became integrated into the southbridge of the chipset. All Intel did in the i8xx series was evict that silicon from the southbridge. Functionally there is no difference between a good discrete PCI-to-ISA bridge and the integrated PCI-to-ISA bridge in say the PIIXE4 southbridge of the i440BX.
