VOGONS


First post, by ragefury32

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Okay, so the purpose of this thread is to discuss some of the tools that can be used to potentially make your life easier working with legacy laptops/thin clients, and it can potentially be of use for desktops.

So, here's a few that I've used on recent projects that made my life a little easier:

Startech+Dual+USB+cable.png

1. USB2 dual-input Y-Cable

Used on repairing/rebuilding an Aluminum Powerbook G4/15.

What was the issue?
When I got my PBG4/15, the DVD/CDRW combo drive was not working, and as part of an SSD swap, I have to reinstall MacOS X Tiger. Unfortunately, the USB2 ports on the Powerbook G4 series did not put out enough power (~400mA) to run my LG slimline external DVD burner.

How did this device solve the problem?
This is essentially a Y-Cable that lets you use one USB plug (colored black) as the data plug, and the other plug (colored red) as a power plug, and it all terminated on a MiniUSB port, which went into the DVD burner (with a copy of the MacOS Tiger install DL-DVD). The red plug went into a power bank I have on hand, the black went to one of the USB ports, and the drive was detected/functioned just fine.

JMicron+JM20330+mSATA+to+IDE.png

2. JMicron JM20330 based mSATA to IDE adapter, 9.5mm 2.5" HDD enclosure sized.

Used on multiple recent legacy hardware projects, including the PBG4, the Thinkpad T21, the Latitude C600, and others.

What was the issue?
So, several things. I am not a fan of mechanical drives - especially not ones that left the factory almost 20 years ago on a standard that has all but become extinct. After years of being on PCIe based SSDs, going back to HDDs are just so...icky. While long term viability of SSDs are...still a matter of debate, they are solid state, non mechanical devices. When you consider that a 128GB mSATA SSD can be had for about 20 USD, even spending another 15 on an enclosure is not terrible, considering that you'll be getting lower latency access, usually better throughput in most scenarios and all that.

How did this device solve the problem?
Slap a cheap mSATA SSD on, format it to about 1/3 to half the capacity (so not having TRIM Isn't a big deal), and watch boot times decrease by half. Granted that the device is likely hamper by the throughput on the IDE controller, so you'll never get the full SATA speed of the SSD drive, but at least you'll still be getting some improvements

AKE+BC168+USB2+to+Cardbus.png

3. AKE BC168 USB2 to Cardbus adapter (based on an NEC chipset)

Used on multiple recent legacy hardware projects, including the Pismo Powerbook the Thinkpad T21, and the Latitude C600.

What was the issue?
Most of the legacy machines in my stable hail from ~1999-2000, and as such, either they don't have USB ports, or they have USB1.1 ports (USB2 isn't a thing until 2002-2003). Some of these hardware have only 1 USB port, making it difficult to plug more than a single device in. If you need to transfer files you'll need to do it on USB 1.1 speeds (12Mbps) or use Ethernet (if it's built-in...often times it's not). Considering that most of my modern hardware have 5GBps USB3.0 ports and flash drives that can copy at nearly native SATA speeds, stepping down to something that is 1/416 of that just seem...really archaic, while the 400Mbps transfer rate of USB2 (slightly more than 1/12) is a more acceptable preposition.

How did this device solve the problem?
It ran on an NEC chipset, so drivers exist in Win98SE - Win98SE in DOS mode will work just fine for 99.99% of the oldschool games out there. The USB ports (2 of them) are recessed onto the Cardbus slot so the card doesn't stick out like an ugly sore thumb. There is also a power lead that will allow you to inject 500mW (through an external source) onto the card so you can power stuff like external USB hard drives or optical drives. Oh yeah, I should mention that it is natively supported in MacO SX Panther, TIger and Leopard on the PowerPC machines with Cardbus ports (any Powerbook G3 and Titanium PowerBook G4s) so you can download old-school games on a thumb drive in modern hardware (I use the Sandisk Cruzer fit series) and then transfer it to a machine with the Cardbus-to-USB2 adapter installed.

PQi+Air+Pen+Express.png

4. PQi Air Pen Express

Used to bypass the need to support old legacy Wifi or run excessive amounts of ethernet cable around the house.

What was the issue?
Once again, this is an issue based on old hardware. Either my laptops do not have native embedded wifi cards (Latitude C600, Thinkpad T21) or it uses old Wifi standards that are either slow, or insecure (in the case of 802.11b+WEP, both). Those hardware do have 10/100 MBit ethernet built-in for the most part.

How did this device solve the problem?
The PQi Air Pen can run off the USB port using about 2-400mA (power it using an external USB power source, or a power bank). What it is meant to do is take the network from the Ethernet and create a small NATed Wireless access point (802.11n 1x1 on 2.4Ghz band, so 150Mbps max) so you can have wifi in your hotel room while travelling. What it can also do is work as a base station, associating wirelessly with an 802.11n/ac access point, and NATing the traffic back to the ethernet port, creating a wireless bridge . So you could plug one end of the Air pen to your USB port, one end to your ethernet port, and as long as you configure the Air Pen correctly through its embedded web interface, you can use it to access your wireless network through it (and the internet). It works in a pinch if you need to, say, access an older SMB1 fileshare on your network, or hit oldschool sites on an outdated browser to grab software. (

...to be continued.)

Reply 2 of 11, by Sedrosken

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Warlord wrote:

best way is to just use ethernet. 🤣

Sometimes for physical reasons that's just not an option, so having something that makes it unneeded is very nice indeed. I will keep an eye out for this PQi pen thing, I have a need for one! It's for my original Xbox -- softmodded but in a location that I can't get an ethernet cable to, so getting software onto it is nigh-impossible.

Nanto: H61H2-AM3, 4GB, GTS250 1GB, SB0730, 512GB SSD, XP USP4
Rithwic: EP-61BXM-A, Celeron 300A@450, 768MB, GF2MX400/V2, YMF744, 128GB SD2IDE, 98SE (Kex)
Cragstone: Alaris Cougar, 486BL2-66, 16MB, GD5428 VLB, CT2800, 16GB SD2IDE, 95CNOIE

Reply 3 of 11, by eisapc

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Speaking on vintage systems USB is not allways an option. I successfully used Interlnk/interserve via parallel line transfering data to/from legacy laptops. These tools come bundled with MS-DOS 6.22 and the cable layout is descriped in the help pages. Another helpful tool was the adaptec paralleport SCSI adapter, used for installation of my Thinkpad 755C. An adapter to connect IDE 44 drives to modern machines is helpful for data backup or transfering installation images to a second partition.
eisapc

Reply 4 of 11, by ragefury32

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Warlord wrote:

best way is to just use ethernet. 🤣

Not always - not every one of the old-school machines have ethernet (so that'll require a PCMCIA/cardbus adapter), sometimes you are physically challenged to plug the adapter in (if you have a 3Com XJack Ethernet card the insertion point for the cable might preclude you from plugging other cards in, and if you have other Ethernet cards you'll need to keep track of the dongles, which can be lost or stolen). You'll also need to run ethernet cables to inconvenient places. I mean, sure, you can buy fiber + media converters to get around tight places (I use singlemode fibers + media converters myself), but that's for running 1/10GBit around the house.

Then there's the need to keep a server around that can serve up Appletalk, or SMBv1, or whatever oldschool protocol needed to transfer those files (granted this is an issue even with the PQi)

That's why on machines that can support it, I prefer to offload it to USB2 whenever I can.

Last edited by ragefury32 on 2019-12-13, 17:18. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 5 of 11, by ragefury32

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Sedrosken wrote:
Warlord wrote:

best way is to just use ethernet. 🤣

Sometimes for physical reasons that's just not an option, so having something that makes it unneeded is very nice indeed. I will keep an eye out for this PQi pen thing, I have a need for one! It's for my original Xbox -- softmodded but in a location that I can't get an ethernet cable to, so getting software onto it is nigh-impossible.

Heh. My PQi is normally connected to a Playstation 2 (with FreeMcBoot, the broadband+HDD adapter, an SD-to-IDE adapter with 64GB of storage) in my master bedroom...so yes, I definitely see where you are coming from.

Reply 6 of 11, by Warlord

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
ragefury32 wrote:

That's why on machines that can support it, I prefer to offload it to USB2 whenever I can.

Id consider your approach to fall into the category of (possibly other things)...Definitely is useful in situations where Ethernet is not possible, however those situations on vintage hardware is far less than with Ethernet.

Reply 7 of 11, by Vynix

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Personally I just use a old pair of powerline ethernet adapters (they're both "Liveplugs", which are just rebranded Devolo ethernet plugs), they're only 10/100M but at least they do the job very well when I need to plug an old machine in the network.

Certainly a bit of a kludge but that's what I had on hand. The PQI thingy isn't a viable option for me (WiFi doesn't pass very well in my house, no matter what I do) unfortunately 😢

Proud owner of a Shuttle HOT-555A 430VX motherboard and two wonderful retro laptops, namely a Compaq Armada 1700 [nonfunctional] and a HP Omnibook XE3-GC [fully working :p]

Reply 8 of 11, by ragefury32

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Vynix wrote:

Personally I just use a old pair of powerline ethernet adapters (they're both "Liveplugs", which are just rebranded Devolo ethernet plugs), they're only 10/100M but at least they do the job very well when I need to plug an old machine in the network.

Certainly a bit of a kludge but that's what I had on hand. The PQI thingy isn't a viable option for me (WiFi doesn't pass very well in my house, no matter what I do) unfortunately 😢

PowerlineAV can work, but the actual quality of connectivity would also depend on your home electrical topology and the quality of your cabling. PowerlineAV adapters don't work well if you have noisy electrical neighbors (stand mixers, microwave ovens, etc), surge protector/line filters on specific circuits, or old copper wiring. In my experience using the adapters in the old homestead I rarely get more than 100Mbits for 20 foot copper runs (this is with AV1200 adapters which promised gigabit speeds), and that's assuming no signal loss...ended up with enough re-transmission related lags and drops that I ended up replacing them with LC fiber runs and media converters.

Last edited by ragefury32 on 2020-02-04, 16:28. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 9 of 11, by Vynix

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I personally had no issues with them, I get about 80mbits (which is pretty good considering that they're only 10/100M), the wiring in my house has been redone two years ago, so I guess I should be in the clear 😦

Either way, nothing can beat a good ol' fashioned cable, powerline adapters work in a pinch, but they're not something I'd personally go with for long-term usage.

Proud owner of a Shuttle HOT-555A 430VX motherboard and two wonderful retro laptops, namely a Compaq Armada 1700 [nonfunctional] and a HP Omnibook XE3-GC [fully working :p]

Reply 10 of 11, by BloodyCactus

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

my xt doesnt have usb but it does have ethernet. my amiga didnt have ethernet but it does have a parallel port.

what they both has is CF cards as IDE, so pull it out, copy data on, put it back. faster than anything else I have.

--/\-[ Stu : Bloody Cactus :: [ https://bloodycactus.com :: http://kråketær.com ]-/\--

Reply 11 of 11, by ragefury32

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Warlord wrote on 2019-12-13, 18:42:
ragefury32 wrote:

That's why on machines that can support it, I prefer to offload it to USB2 whenever I can.

Id consider your approach to fall into the category of (possibly other things)...Definitely is useful in situations where Ethernet is not possible, however those situations on vintage hardware is far less than with Ethernet.

That would depend on your definition of "vintage". My vintage stuff is Coppermine P3 based with a 32b bit cardbus slot, so a Cardbus USB2 adapter with a slim profit FAT32 based USB2 drives will be more handy than, say, ethernet (my home is mostly 802.11ac wifi except for fiber runs to out-of-reach places). For even older hardware with only 16 Bit PCMCIA support (like my Thinkpad 560E) I would probably need a something like a 3Com 3c574 (or its XJack cousin the 3CXSH572BT) - which is a 10/100 FastE card, and I'll still need to "jump" it with the PQi Airpen Express. Due to the nature of PCMCIA (a variant of 16 Bit ISA) the transfer rate will probably never go above, say, 4MByte/sec, since it can't do stuff like bus mastering. At that stage, might as well pull the drive out and use other means.