VOGONS


Reply 20 of 37, by Falcosoft

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agent_x007 wrote on 2020-03-05, 17:26:
red-ray wrote on 2020-03-04, 18:14:
agent_x007 wrote on 2020-03-04, 17:21:

While Titan X(M) "takes" 512MB

No it doesn't and I can't see how the screen shots you posted indicate it does. The prefetch area is 288 MB so there is no way it uses 512 MB!

Well, when I swap GPU from Titan Black to Titan X(M), my available RAM drops to 2,94GB (can be seen both in task manager and under System information), and when I swap back to Titan Black I get 3,44GB back again.

When get to PCIe with XP again, I will test this with Your program under XP.

According to your report your Titan X must have the starting address of its address space at 0xC0000000 while your Titan Black at 0xE0000000. You can check this even in Device Manger. Yet most likely the occupied address space is the same (namely 256MB at 0xC0000000-0xCFFFFFFF and 0xE000000-0xEFFFFFFF respectively and some other smaller auxiliary regions above these addresses). The smaller usable memory is due to 32-bit Windows could only use continuous address space for system memory only up to the first address occupied by any PCI devices .

The interesting thing is this starting address is not strictly tied to either occupied address space or onboard VRAM size. I have an older PC with an ATI card that has only 128 MB VRAM yet has its LFB region at 0xC0000000-0xC7FFFFFF. So it also occupies only 128MB PCI address space but since its starting address is at 0xC0000000 with 32-bit windows the maximum available RAM is only 3GB. In the same PC an NVIDIA card with 256MB onboard RAM has its LFB region at 0xD0000000-0xDFFFFFFF. So it occupied 256MB address space (more than the ATI card with only 128MB) yet with 32-bit windows the maximum available RAM is 3.25GB since the starting address is at 0xD0000000.

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Reply 22 of 37, by spiroyster

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red-ray wrote on 2020-03-04, 23:59:
hwh wrote on 2020-03-04, 22:00:

What determines this? Hardware choice? Card choice? Driver?

The windows driver will not have any effect, it's a combination of which cards you have and how the BIOS set's things up.

Does the Linear Frame Buffer fall under "Hardware reserved" category in task manager?

Could a GPU override the size of the linear frame buffer that the BIOS reserves with more if it wanted to? (wrt how much GPU VRAM is available of course... which is moot these days since it's probably been over 10 years that GPU's had less than 256MB VRAM). I thought the maximum this could be is dictated by the BIOS...

256MB is a lot! I don't know what uses it these days since most graphics subsystems for OS's use the hardware acceleration of the GPU afaik (ergo an API exposed by the drivers of the card, and therefore not part of the linear frame buffer address space).

So in most cases one could probably reduce this in the BIOS and see no adverse effects?

Reply 23 of 37, by GokuSS4

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@agent_x007
try this: Windows XP on newer Systems (Intel >Haswell/AMD Ryzen)

Win10 Ryzen 7 5800X | TUF B450M-Pro | 32GB DDR4-3800 CL16 | RX 6800 XT
WinXP Core i3-3220 | H77 Pro4-M | 8GB DDR3-1600 CL9 | X1950 Pro
Win98SE Pentium E5800 | 775i65G R3.0 | 512MB DDR1-400 CL2 | X850 XT

Reply 24 of 37, by pentiumspeed

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I have XP currently installed on a Dell sandy bridge i7 with 2x 4GB sticks for 8GB total, XP only see about 3.5GB on mine. No problem.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 25 of 37, by darry

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I wanted to test something under XP on an x58 based system (x8sax) that normally runs Windows 7 x64 and Windows 10 x64 (dual boot). This system has a GTX 1060 3GB and 48GB of RAM (not a typo). This was was meant as a temporary installation to test X-FI behaviour under XP, so lack of driver support for the GTX 1060 was not a concern .

Anyway, long story short, when installing XP SP3 and using the F6 menu to install AHCI drivers from a floppy, the drivers are found, but Windows XP installer cannot find any drives attached (I have 3 SSDs berween 120GB and 250GB) . I tried 3 different AHCI drivers, including UniATA, before giving up and setting legacy IDE mode in the BIOS, which worked .

Once booted, I saw Windows detected 1.99GB of RAM and I installed chipset drivers, which caused a bluescreen at reboot (0x00007B or so regarding not finding a boot device). AFAICR, last known good configuration and Safe mode did not work either, so I reinstalled XP, installed X-FI drivers, did my tests and got rid of XP on that machine . As an added note, I did try playing with a BIOS setting regarding 1GB memory hole, but that changed nothing during the AHCI install attempts.

I have no guarantees that my issues were due to excess RAM, but I do not see any other likely cause . Removing RAM to test explicitly would have been a pain due to the cooling solution installed.

Reply 26 of 37, by red-ray

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darry wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:00:

I have no guarantees that my issues were due to excess RAM, but I do not see any other likely cause.

I have had Windows XP on my ASUS P6X58D Premium + Intel Core i7 Extreme 980X (Gulftown) + 12GB of RAM ever since I got it back in 2010 and had no real issues with running XP. Given 12GB is OK I expect 48GB should also be OK.

All the disks are RAID Mirrors.

Reply 27 of 37, by mothergoose729

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For the purposes of running games it doesn't matter. Unlike windows 98, having more RAM doesn't effect system stability. I don't think you can find a game that will run on windows XP that will use more than 2GB of RAM, and even if you did, you could easily run that game on windows 10.

VRAM address space is different. The graphics driver will handle all of that for you. My GTX 980ti with 6gb of VRAM has no problem doing VRAM intensive things like super sampling and wasteful levels of textures filtering and anti aliasing.

As for PAE hacks I don't much see the point. Having a RAM drive is kind of neat but not particularly necessary. Your software definitely won't use the extra address space - not unless you are doing real work that would be better suited for linux or modern windows anyway.

(Not that everything we do has to be practical)

Reply 28 of 37, by darry

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red-ray wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:27:
darry wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:00:

I have no guarantees that my issues were due to excess RAM, but I do not see any other likely cause.

I have had Windows XP on my ASUS P6X58D Premium + Intel Core i7 Extreme 980X (Gulftown) + 12GB of RAM ever since I got it back in 2010 and had no real issues with running XP. Given 12GB is OK I expect 48GB should also be OK.

All the disks are RAID Mirrors.

If my AHCI issue was not due to RAM, I do not have a likely scenario in mind to explain it, but I am open to suggestions as I am quite curious about a potential cause . I have some socket 1366 CPUs and another x8sax in storage, so I might experiment with that at some point if I can get some spare 8GB DDR3 DIMMs too (which I really should do). Maybe the issue is BIOS specific and is triggered by some of the hardware that I have installed (RAM amount or add-in card) .

Reply 29 of 37, by Tecchie

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red-ray wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:27:
darry wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:00:

I have no guarantees that my issues were due to excess RAM, but I do not see any other likely cause.

I have had Windows XP on my ASUS P6X58D Premium + Intel Core i7 Extreme 980X (Gulftown) + 12GB of RAM ever since I got it back in 2010 and had no real issues with running XP. Given 12GB is OK I expect 48GB should also be OK.

All the disks are RAID Mirrors.

Not sure why you all have issues with the PAE patch, running a machine with 8GB I never had any stability or performance issues. and there *IS* more than one PAE patch out there, I just need to find the one I used again, and it was *NOT * on the MSFN.org or whatever site..

It enabled up to 128GB on a 32-bit system.

Reply 30 of 37, by red-ray

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Tecchie wrote on 2021-03-20, 18:27:
red-ray wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:27:
darry wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:00:

I have no guarantees that my issues were due to excess RAM, but I do not see any other likely cause.

I have had Windows XP on my ASUS P6X58D Premium + Intel Core i7 Extreme 980X (Gulftown) + 12GB of RAM ever since I got it back in 2010 and had no real issues with running XP. Given 12GB is OK I expect 48GB should also be OK.

All the disks are RAID Mirrors.

Not sure why you all have issues with the PAE patch, running a machine with 8GB I never had any stability or performance issues. and there *IS* more than one PAE patch out there, I just need to find the one I used again, and it was *NOT * on the MSFN.org or whatever site..

It enabled up to 128GB on a 32-bit system.

What are on about? I don't have any issues with the XP installation on my ASUS P6X58D Premium, further given darry said the system reported 1.99GB he does not have a PAE patch

Reply 31 of 37, by darry

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red-ray wrote on 2021-03-20, 19:44:
Tecchie wrote on 2021-03-20, 18:27:
red-ray wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:27:

I have had Windows XP on my ASUS P6X58D Premium + Intel Core i7 Extreme 980X (Gulftown) + 12GB of RAM ever since I got it back in 2010 and had no real issues with running XP. Given 12GB is OK I expect 48GB should also be OK.

All the disks are RAID Mirrors.

Not sure why you all have issues with the PAE patch, running a machine with 8GB I never had any stability or performance issues. and there *IS* more than one PAE patch out there, I just need to find the one I used again, and it was *NOT * on the MSFN.org or whatever site..

It enabled up to 128GB on a 32-bit system.

What are on about? I don't have any issues with the XP installation on my ASUS P6X58D Premium, further given darry said the system reported 1.99GB he does not have a PAE patch

I can confirm that I did not have any third party patches on my XP SP3 installation CD nor did I install any afterwards . My install CD contained only 32-bit XP, slipstreamed to SP3 (I slipstreamed it myself). This CD media had previously been used to install another system (also running in AHCI mode) successfully

Reply 32 of 37, by DosFreak

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darry wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:00:
I wanted to test something under XP on an x58 based system (x8sax) that normally runs Windows 7 x64 and Windows 10 x64 (dual boo […]
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I wanted to test something under XP on an x58 based system (x8sax) that normally runs Windows 7 x64 and Windows 10 x64 (dual boot). This system has a GTX 1060 3GB and 48GB of RAM (not a typo). This was was meant as a temporary installation to test X-FI behaviour under XP, so lack of driver support for the GTX 1060 was not a concern .

Anyway, long story short, when installing XP SP3 and using the F6 menu to install AHCI drivers from a floppy, the drivers are found, but Windows XP installer cannot find any drives attached (I have 3 SSDs berween 120GB and 250GB) . I tried 3 different AHCI drivers, including UniATA, before giving up and setting legacy IDE mode in the BIOS, which worked .

Once booted, I saw Windows detected 1.99GB of RAM and I installed chipset drivers, which caused a bluescreen at reboot (0x00007B or so regarding not finding a boot device). AFAICR, last known good configuration and Safe mode did not work either, so I reinstalled XP, installed X-FI drivers, did my tests and got rid of XP on that machine . As an added note, I did try playing with a BIOS setting regarding 1GB memory hole, but that changed nothing during the AHCI install attempts.

I have no guarantees that my issues were due to excess RAM, but I do not see any other likely cause . Removing RAM to test explicitly would have been a pain due to the cooling solution installed.

What drivers did you use?
Did you try these: https://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel- … lly-signed.html

You can also try storahci:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/storahci-for-windows-2003/

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Reply 33 of 37, by darry

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DosFreak wrote on 2021-03-20, 20:23:
What drivers did you use? Did you try these: https://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel- … lly-signed.html […]
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darry wrote on 2021-03-20, 16:00:
I wanted to test something under XP on an x58 based system (x8sax) that normally runs Windows 7 x64 and Windows 10 x64 (dual boo […]
Show full quote

I wanted to test something under XP on an x58 based system (x8sax) that normally runs Windows 7 x64 and Windows 10 x64 (dual boot). This system has a GTX 1060 3GB and 48GB of RAM (not a typo). This was was meant as a temporary installation to test X-FI behaviour under XP, so lack of driver support for the GTX 1060 was not a concern .

Anyway, long story short, when installing XP SP3 and using the F6 menu to install AHCI drivers from a floppy, the drivers are found, but Windows XP installer cannot find any drives attached (I have 3 SSDs berween 120GB and 250GB) . I tried 3 different AHCI drivers, including UniATA, before giving up and setting legacy IDE mode in the BIOS, which worked .

Once booted, I saw Windows detected 1.99GB of RAM and I installed chipset drivers, which caused a bluescreen at reboot (0x00007B or so regarding not finding a boot device). AFAICR, last known good configuration and Safe mode did not work either, so I reinstalled XP, installed X-FI drivers, did my tests and got rid of XP on that machine . As an added note, I did try playing with a BIOS setting regarding 1GB memory hole, but that changed nothing during the AHCI install attempts.

I have no guarantees that my issues were due to excess RAM, but I do not see any other likely cause . Removing RAM to test explicitly would have been a pain due to the cooling solution installed.

What drivers did you use?
Did you try these: https://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel- … lly-signed.html

You can also try storahci:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/storahci-for-windows-2003/

It's been a while and I remember that one of them was UniATA and another was an ICH10R/AHCI driver from SuperMicro's support site . I will give the ones that you suggested a shot when I get to retrying this using spare hardware.
Thank you for the suggestions .

Reply 34 of 37, by CwF

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SuperMicro's CD of the time had drivers for XP 32 to slip in, an extra inf for the 8 way memory something? I put together an install CD at the time that was clean. I ran many X8DTH*'s and saved one X8DTi. It reports 3GB to XP with .99 added to whatever above 4GB as the ram drive. It's ran up to 48GB, 8 I think now. It had drivers for quadros and firepro's and currently has 4GB amd~78xx. The onboard matrox works too.

I used to know what I was doing...

Reply 35 of 37, by Horun

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Probably no help but have had issues with AHCI mode on certain chipsets and XP 32bit. It seems more of a early chipset issue than a drive issue but never fully investigated it.
As far as running more than 4Gb with XP 32bit on dual boot: have it on two machines and they both report about 3.25Gb (3400Mb in Task Man) with standard PAE and have no issues.
Tried a simple PCI card and got near 3.8Gb but prefer the PCIe 512Mb video card so back to ~3.3Gb due to XP system caching with bigger video cards.
Need to check my Vostro laptop chipset (cannot remember what it has) because it was one where XP hated AHCI but Win Vista or Win7 had no issues with it.
I see no reason to use hacked or modded kernals or whatever to run XP 32bit with more than 4Gb of ram, there is no real benefit from what little I know...just my opinion.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 36 of 37, by Warlord

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🤣 theres no reason why XP cannot use 4 or 8gb or ram. You could do it in Vanilla XP with PAE boot parameters. MS removed that because PAE is not totally stable will all drivers that exist in this world. But can Be 100% stable with the right drivers.

You can patch PAE back into XP no problem. Theres not much difference between 2003 and XP and 2003 with PAE totally supports 8gb. The difference is 2003 drivers are tested to run with PAE and XP drivers are not.

PS: on one of my laptops the Compal FL92 even without PAE patch I get 3.5 GB ram. So there is something to video card and how its setup in hardware.

The only benefits I can think of running that much ram is running with no page file. As with no page file XP just caches it to ram, and maybe if you use photoshop or some other memory hog application.

I have tried several different patches the Original Chinese patch, called 64g or something, Daniel K patch, and I tired this dibya guys patch. Of all patches the Daniel K one was the best if you just want 4gb. The other ones go further in patching USB drivers among other things with 2003 enterprise server files.

Reply 37 of 37, by Horun

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Yes Daniel Kawakami has done some great work, am using his Audigy 2 drivers in XP and Win7.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun