VOGONS


Reply 20 of 49, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

UPDATE:

In a funny twist, I've been playing with this board for more than a month now, and it's officially my new favorite SS7 board. Just goes to show that first impressions are not always right 😀
Why do I like it so much? Well, It's not the fastest, not the slowest, it doesn't support FSB overclocking, but it's definitely one of the best in terms of stability. After I fixed the AGP issues described in this thread, it's been absolutely rock solid, I did not encounter a single problem: everything just works in both Windows 98 and DOS.

So, having said that, the logical next step was to make it official and put it inside a case 😀

Final configuration:
MB: DFI K6XV3+/66
CPU: AMD K6-2+ 550 MHz @ 600 MHz
RAM: 128 MB
VGA: Elsa Gladiac GeForce 2 MX 32 MB
Sound: ESS AudioDrive ES1868F

The case is the InterTech Velvet II. I bought two of these, one for this SS7 build, and another one for an upcoming Athlon 64 4000+ build. I really like the retro/modern look of this case.
I also went with my PSU of choice for retro builds: a brand new Segotep ATX-500WH - probably the last PSU with 30 Amps on the 5V rail that I can still buy new in my country - very reliable, quiet, have been using them for years on many projects (although, it's definitely overkill for this build, which only needs about 12 amps from the 5V rail).
The case has one 120mm ARCTIC AC F12 Silent fan for air intake. The CPU cooler is a NOS socket 7 cooler (replaced the original noisy fan with a new SilentiumPC Zephyr 50mm).

Some benchmark scores:
GLQuake 640x480x32: 160.6 FPS
GLQuake 1024x768x32: 93.9 FPS
Quake 2 640x480x32: 96.1 FPS
Quake 2 1024x768x32: 89.3 FPS
3DMark2000 1024x768x16: 3301 points
3DMark99Max 800x600x16: 4056 points

And... a few pics, of course 😀

k6xv3_1.jpg
k6xv3_2.jpg
k6xv3_3.jpg
k6xv3_4.jpg

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 21 of 49, by Repo Man11

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

With my Soyo 5EMA+ I used the 4 in 1 version 1435 that Phil has hosted, and it has allowed me to switch from 2x to 1x. Experimenting with 2x has always worked for a while, then lead to the system locking up; the improvement in benchmark scores has been slight to nonexistent. https://www.philscomputerlab.com/via-chipset-drivers.html

"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 22 of 49, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Yeah, see my fourth post in this thread. 4.35 is also my go-to driver, but not on this board. This board works absolutely beautifully with VIA 4in1 version 4.17. As I discovered, a BIOS bug keeps the AGP bus running at 2x, even when disabling 2x mode in the BIOS + also installing the AGP driver that comes with 4.35 in "Normal" mode instead of "Turbo". Which is why, after a lot of testing, I ended up with version 4.17.

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 23 of 49, by Repo Man11

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
bloodem wrote on 2020-08-15, 17:16:

Yeah, see my fourth post in this thread. 4.35 is also my go-to driver, but not on this board. This board works absolutely beautifully with VIA 4in1 version 4.17. As I discovered, a BIOS bug keeps the AGP bus running at 2x, even when disabling 2x mode in the BIOS + also installing the AGP driver that comes with 4.35 in "Normal" mode instead of "Turbo". Which is why, after a lot of testing, I ended up with version 4.17.

It'd be interesting to somehow find out what the difference is between the two boards to know why this happens. Changing the BIOS setting on my Soyo board definitely changes the setting in Windows; when I've tried 2x in a fit of misguided optimism and the inevitable lockups happened, I was able to change it to 1x in the BIOS, and then get into Windows and reinstall the Via driver in normal mode. I guess this sort of thing is one of the reasons why this forum exists.

"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 24 of 49, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

When it comes to these early VIA / Ali AGP related problems, I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer... From my experience, there are way too many variables, too many chipset revisions, too many different manufacturers with different board & power designs, and different BIOS implementations (some more buggy than others). The main problem, if I remember correctly, was that VIA (and probably Ali too) reverse-engineered Intel's AGP design, because, at the time, they did not want (or couldn't afford) to pay the license fees that Intel was demanding. This was a recipe for disaster from the get-go. 😀

But, the way I see it, this is both a blessing and a curse. Because, all these issues, all these variables, are actually the reason why I love playing with the SS7 boards. You simply never know how a SS7 board will behave until you thoroughly test it: what works for one, will most likely not work for the other. So, this is pure entertainment! 😁

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 26 of 49, by shamino

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Back when I got my first AGP card (Geforce2 MX on a Tyan S1590) I went through all the typical fiddling with VIA and nVidia drivers and BIOS settings figuring out how to make the thing work.

The VIA driver I ended up using was v4.17, which wasn't the newest at the time. The only reason I remember for sure of why I went back to that version was because it had the "non-turbo" option during install, which was mandatory for me since my BIOS doesn't even have an AGP 1X/2X toggle. But I don't remember if there was any other reason for me picking that version specifically. I've just stuck with it out of habit ever since, because it's always worked.
It's interesting that you just went through this battle on a different motherboard and settled on that same version.

Reply 27 of 49, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
chrismeyer6 wrote on 2020-08-16, 08:57:

That is a great example of a ss7 system. I really like that case your using and your cable management is excellent.

Thanks, glad you like it 😀

shamino wrote on 2020-08-16, 13:43:

Back when I got my first AGP card (Geforce2 MX on a Tyan S1590) I went through all the typical fiddling with VIA and nVidia drivers and BIOS settings figuring out how to make the thing work.

The VIA driver I ended up using was v4.17, which wasn't the newest at the time. The only reason I remember for sure of why I went back to that version was because it had the "non-turbo" option during install, which was mandatory for me since my BIOS doesn't even have an AGP 1X/2X toggle. But I don't remember if there was any other reason for me picking that version specifically. I've just stuck with it out of habit ever since, because it's always worked.
It's interesting that you just went through this battle on a different motherboard and settled on that same version.

Very interesting, shamino! Thanks for sharing 😀
Back in the day, I actually had an Ali Aladdin V motherboard. I had a bunch of issues with it, mostly related to RAM compatibility (after I upgraded from 32 to 128 MB).
But, in the past few years, I only played with VIA MVP3 SS7 boards, and my success rate has been 100%. I managed to make all boards run stable. So now I am looking for an Ali based SS7 board (like a Gigabyte 5AX rev 4.1/5.2 or Asus P5A rev 1.04), just so that I can compare and see if I can achieve the same level of stability with it. 😀

Last edited by bloodem on 2021-05-14, 14:19. Edited 1 time in total.

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 28 of 49, by Repo Man11

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Just for the heck of it I installed the 4.17 over the 4.135. I use a Promise ATA 100 IDE card in this system, and I would disable the primary on board IDE channel. After installing the 4.135 drivers, the DVDROM would disappear from My Computer, and when I would check device manager, there would be a hardware conflict with the on board IDE controller which was solved by also disabling the primary channel there; after that, the DVROM would reappear in My Computer and work normally. Now that I've installed 4.17, I have both channels enabled in the BIOS while still using the Promise card, and there's no hardware conflict.

"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 29 of 49, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Thanks for the update, Repo Man11. So, yeah, this is why a 440BX platform was so expensive back then... it just worked without any tinkering. It's funny that I now find the 440BX boring, while the SS7 platform is fascinating to me. If someone had told me this 20 years ago, I would have laughed my ass off...

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 30 of 49, by shamino

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I've often wanted to go back and explore more upgrade options that I had in the late 90s when I ended up going from a 430VX/Cyrix6x86 to an MVP3/K6-3. It's interesting to think about the different paths I could have taken.
I'm not sure if I did the right thing getting my Super 7 board back then. I certainly had growing doubts when I ran into the initial troubles with AGP, and later the joke of VIA's USB (which is badly broken, whether due to drivers or hardware).

I feel like both of those problems are solved though once you find a good way to set up AGP, and simply adding an NEC USB 2.0 card if needed. Nowadays it has become one of my favorite boards to own.

Reply 31 of 49, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
chrismeyer6 wrote on 2020-08-16, 08:57:

That is a great example of a ss7 system. I really like that case your using and your cable management is excellent.

It's almost as if the cables aren't even there 😜

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 32 of 49, by RaiderOfLostVoodoo

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Necromancy, so I don't have to open another thread.

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-15, 14:34:

Why do I like it so much? Well, It's not the fastest, not the slowest, it doesn't support FSB overclocking, but it's definitely one of the best in terms of stability.

Another noteworthy fact: It seems to be the only UDMA66 board, which has 3 ISA slots. Nice for some variance in sound. Who needs that many PCI slots anyway? Voodoo2 SLI + Voodoo1 for the ultimate compatibility and you still have 1 PCI slot left, if you use a riser cable.

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-15, 14:34:

VGA: Elsa Gladiac GeForce 2 MX 32 MB

I got a GeForce2 MX 200 with 64MB. Back in mid 2000 I had a GTS 64MB and remember, that I had to patch Diablo II to at least version 1.03, or it would crash. Are there more games that don't like 64MB VRAM? I'm considering downgrading to avoid any compatibility issues. 64MB is probably overkill anyway.

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-15, 14:34:

RAM: 128 MB

I wonder why many people just use a single 128MB stick, instead of a 256MB stick or even more.
Is it due to compatibility? Or performance?

Reply 33 of 49, by kirikl

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Memtest hangs my build...
Very RAM sensitive.
Also looks like if you use K6-2+/3/3+ it does mot matter how much RAM you use
But I stopped at 512 just in case

GA-5AX/k6-3+ 600mhz
XT Turbo 10mhz
HP TC4200 / NC6400
Sony Vaio PCG-SRX99 / PCG-505TR / C1 Picturebook
Compaq LTE Elite 4/75CXL / LTE 5000
Toshiba T1100+ / T3100e/40 / T3200SXC
Tandy 1400 LT / 1000HX
PB G4 1.33 / G3 300
iBook Cl 300

Reply 34 of 49, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2021-12-29, 19:08:

I wonder why many people just use a single 128MB stick, instead of a 256MB stick or even more.
Is it due to compatibility? Or performance?

On 99.9% of the SS7 platforms, using more than 128 MB will decrease performance by 5 - 10% on K6-2+/3(+) chips or by 25 - 30% on regular K6-2 chips, because on most motherboards/chipset revisions the maximum cacheable area is 128 MB.
Not only that, but realistically speaking, there's no point in using more than 128 MB. Games that actually need more than 128 MB RAM also need much more processing power, so playing them on a completely different platform would be my (and other people's) first choice. 😁

EDIT: just realized that the photos were missing from my previous posts. Fixed!

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 35 of 49, by majestyk

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The K6XV3+/66 comes with a minimum of 512K L2 cache. The cacheable area is exactly 128MB in this case. If it´s equipped with 1MB, it´s 256MB and with 2MB L2 cache it´s 512 MB.

But if you use two SDRAM sticks "Memory Interleave" can be turned on and that´s a considerable performance increase.

BTW, the K6XV3+/66 and K6BV3+/66 were my favoutite SS7 mainboards back in the days. I used one of them as a productive system for more than 10 years.

Reply 36 of 49, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
majestyk wrote on 2021-12-30, 06:42:

The K6XV3+/66 comes with a minimum of 512K L2 cache. The cacheable area is exactly 128MB in this case. If it´s equipped with 1MB, it´s 256MB and with 2MB L2 cache it´s 512 MB.

But if you use two SDRAM sticks "Memory Interleave" can be turned on and that´s a considerable performance increase.

Yes, most boards come with 512K of L2 cache. In fact, all 20+ boards that I currently own, have just 512K. My assumption is that boards with 1 MB (not to mention 2 MB) of onboard cache were very rare because their price was probably a lot higher, making them too expensive for the average SS7 buyer.

Regarding the memory interleave, good point. I haven't tested this on SS7, but on other newer platforms (VIA KX133) it does give a substantial boost.
The issue is that most motherboards lack the BIOS options for activating memory interleave, which means that you need to do it via wpcredit or other similar tools.

Last edited by bloodem on 2021-12-30, 06:56. Edited 1 time in total.

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 38 of 49, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I usually go with two sticks of RAM, actually. And I never noticed a difference between using one or two modules.
This tells me that the memory interleave feature needs to be activated (either through a BIOS option - which most of the time is missing, or wpcredit).

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k