VOGONS


First post, by renejr902

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Hi! I have a IBM PC Pentium 233mx with dual partition dos 6.22 and win98se. 128mb.
matrox mystique 2mb.( i will change it because of scroll problem in dos games)
But i love the integrated sound card. Crystal CS4232. its a integrated isa card with real yamaha Opl3 , its sbpro 100% compatible. its sound great, great like a sound blaster 16 isa but i dont have one anymore and i dont want to pay 60$+IN Canada. But i want a gameport. i have no integrated gameport. i tried to add a SB live 5.1 for use only the gameport in dos and didnt succeed. i tried for hours. it seems Sb emulation has to be enable to get the gameport working. Sb emulation slow my dos games and music and sound really bad vs crystal cs4232. i can still get keen4 and some others games working with a usb gamepad controller from Logitech with a usb controller dos driver made by a guy in 2010. but not all game work and for some of them, the gamepad cant calibrate correctly. its still cool but not enough good. I want to keep the crystal integrated sound card. What can i do to add a working gameport to my retro computer..thanks for help. ( my idea is to buy 2-3 cheap soundcard and see if one of them can work with their gameport without their soundcard driver.. i dont know if its a good idea)

Reply 2 of 25, by dionb

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Or just get a dedicated game port card (usually they are dual port cards, so you can connect two joysticks at once).
But are you so sure that the computer doesn't have a header for a game port? Given the age that would be very likely. Then all you need is a cable+bracket to connect to the header. Exactly which "IBM PC Pentium 233mx" do you have? If we can look up specs for the motherboard we can help you look.

Reply 3 of 25, by renejr902

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thanks so much. I think This is the Serial number: ibm pn 01k5886.

( Can add another soundcard can work or its impossible?)

( except ebay any idea to find a gameport card. they cost at least 50-60 because they are from USA and i have to pay custom tax )

Reply 4 of 25, by dionb

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You can't google serial numbers- they're unique per device. If you really don't know system model number etc, just take good photograph of the part of the motherboard with the CS4232 chip instead.

You could add another sound card with game port functionality. To avoid conflicts you could choose one that's not Soundblaster-compatible - or just take a soundblaster-compatible card and set it to other resources (address, DMA, IRQ). As for the game port cards, options depend on where you are- but in a minute or two I found an I/O card for CAD 13 in eBay located in CA. It has a gameport. Look for "STD 208910" and filter for Canada-only. Non-eBay options vary considerably dependent on location and as I haven't been to CA for over 30 years, I can't help much there. Frequently these things are included in job lots by sellers who don't even know exactly what they have, so you can't just search for a given term, you need to check photographs on likely-looking ads.

Reply 5 of 25, by Horun

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Right, I can not find anything with that number because it is a serial number.
On the board should be two or three white stickers or an actual part number
Since the mobo has sound it should have a game port header if like Intel Advanced, Micron M55hi, etc have.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.

Reply 6 of 25, by renejr902

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how i can do that?:

take a soundblaster-compatible card and set it to other resources (address, DMA, IRQ).

Thanks for help.

By the way i just got 5 min ago a Sound Blaster PCI 128. So i have this one and a SB Live to try to set others ressources.

About your 13$ card + ship = 35$+tax but its possible. The guy dont specify that it has a gameport. are you sure the port on it is a gameport ?

edit: i just add a picture. Its show CS4236B.

But i will check again in bios. im pretty sure i saw CS4232.

but they are similar product, they use same win and dos driver

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Reply 8 of 25, by dionb

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renejr902 wrote on 2020-07-26, 18:40:

how i can do that?:

take a soundblaster-compatible card and set it to other resources (address, DMA, IRQ).

Depends on the card. Old ones use jumpers, mid-period cards use EEPROM settings (via a card-specific tool), newer ones use PnP (which requires a PnP init tool). Default Sound Blaster settings are A220, I5 (or 7) and D1. Set the other card to A240, I3 (or 7 or anything else that's free) and D0 or 3 and it won't conflict. AdLib/OPL will generally still be at A388, but that's write-only, so it doesn't matter if multiple cards have the same setting.

Thanks for help.

By the way i just got 5 min ago a Sound Blaster PCI 128. So i have this one and a SB Live to try to set others ressources.

DOS and PCI is generally a bad combination. Stick to ISA, for this card you need nasty TSR drivers, just like with the Live.

About your 13$ card + ship = 35$+tax but its possible.

Where DO you live? You said Canada in your first post, if I set shipping for this card to Canada (I selected a random address in Quebec City - just guessing because English doesn't seem to be your first language) I got CAD 20 shipping. Still pricey, but that CAD 35 sounds like international shipping. If you don't live in Canada, look in the country where you do live first.

The guy dont specify that it has a gameport. are you sure the port on it is a gameport ?

It's an ISA I/O card with 2x serial, 1x parallel and something with a DA15 connector. That's gameport. As I said, with this sort of stuff you should assume the seller doesn't know exactly what he's selling.

edit: i just add a picture. Its show CS4236B.

But i will check again in bios. im pretty sure i saw CS4232.

CS4232 and CS4236 are similar chips, so no problem there. Unfortunately the pic only shows a very small bit of board, and there are no headers visible on that part.

Reply 9 of 25, by dionb

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renejr902 wrote on 2020-07-26, 19:07:

Hi again (read my previous post too) , i just got a Zoltrix ISA Sound card with gamport for free if it can help.

Maybe. *Which* Zoltrix ISA sound card?

Reply 10 of 25, by renejr902

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ok i got the card. After 2 hours searching the model i found it. i cant find the driver yet, but i have the manual in pdf.

Zoltrix Audio Plus 3200 V.2 Model: AV 305. Chip: with Crystal CS4231A-KL, CMI8328 and DXP44Q
check the picture. It has REAL OPL3 FM even my cs4238b has a OPL3 clone.

I think this card is better than my integrated crystal sound card. Is the Zoltrix better? check the manual:
https://www.manualslib.com/download/848174/Zo … s-3200-V-2.html

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Reply 12 of 25, by darry

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renejr902 wrote on 2020-07-26, 22:11:
ok i got the card. After 2 hours searching the model i found it. i cant find the driver yet, but i have the manual in pdf. […]
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ok i got the card. After 2 hours searching the model i found it. i cant find the driver yet, but i have the manual in pdf.

Zoltrix Audio Plus 3200 V.2 Model: AV 305. Chip: with Crystal CS4231A-KL, CMI8328 and DXP44Q
check the picture. It has REAL OPL3 FM even my cs4238b has a OPL3 clone.

I think this card is better than my integrated crystal sound card. Is the Zoltrix better? check the manual:
https://www.manualslib.com/download/848174/Zo … s-3200-V-2.html

"Zoltrix" and "better" usually fit into a sentence with the word "than" between them as in "Anything is better than a Zoltrix". I hear there are exceptions, however .
Compatibility may be decent, but I have strong doubts about about sound quality . You will need to test it to know for sure .
Drivers are here http://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?file … 627&menustate=0

Reply 13 of 25, by dionb

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renejr902 wrote on 2020-07-26, 22:11:
ok i got the card. After 2 hours searching the model i found it. i cant find the driver yet, but i have the manual in pdf. […]
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ok i got the card. After 2 hours searching the model i found it. i cant find the driver yet, but i have the manual in pdf.

Zoltrix Audio Plus 3200 V.2 Model: AV 305. Chip: with Crystal CS4231A-KL, CMI8328 and DXP44Q
check the picture. It has REAL OPL3 FM even my cs4238b has a OPL3 clone.

I think this card is better than my integrated crystal sound card. Is the Zoltrix better? check the manual:
https://www.manualslib.com/download/848174/Zo … s-3200-V-2.html

This is a completely different kettle of fish. The CS4231 is just a codec, not the audio controller. That CMI 8328 is the controller here.

Basically on paper their specs are the same (SBPro2, WSS, MPU-401), but there the similarity ends. Crystal's CS4236 is a very mature product with excellent SNR and driver support C-Media's CMI8328 was a bit of a dead-end of a then-obscure company with very little support. It has some odd design choices (SB DA and WSS can't be used at the same time, for example) and drivers are rudimentary. C-Media started all over again with the CMI8329/8330, which are excellent chips let down by very cheap cards. That's the other problem here. Zoltrix/AudioExcel was a complete bottom-feeder with cheap, nasty card designs that tended to be quite noisy.

Sound from the onboard CS4236 is almost certain to be better. But you can use this card for its game port. Drivers (init/config apps) and manual available here: http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1627&menustate=0

I'm still not convinced that you don't just have a game port header on your motherboard though. A better picture or a clear identification of the board would help.

Reply 14 of 25, by renejr902

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hi! everything works. i have to configure the Zoltrix 3200 in dos as Windows Sound and not SB compatible because it conflict in music with my crystal c4236b. Now in dos i use the 4236b for soundcard and i only use the gameport of the zoltrix 3200.

Notes:
- I tried the Zoltrix as a soundcard in dos the quality was poor like you said. i tried keen4 and jazz. jazz music was really really bad.
- i really dont have any integrated gameport in my ibm pc i triple check.
- is it a better way to do, to be sure i have no conflict while using Zoltrix gameport only and my integratrd cs4236b as a soundcard ? ( i configured Zoltrix as Windows system in dos because otherwise music seems to be weird in my cs4236b. its even conflict the cs4236b music, if i have no driver in dos with the zoltrix ! is it better to configure the zoltrix dos driver as a sb compatible with different port adress? or any other idea ? )
- i tried for a few minutes and everything is in conflict in win 98 with both sound card, no sound at all. i will try later to correct it. i cant even get win 98 to recognize the zoltrix 3200 driver. and gameport is not working.
- I got the pci trident 1mb vga card and NO MORE scrolling problem in Keen 4-5-6 and Jazz, im so happy, matrox mystic is really bad for dos.
- i cant find any gameport split cable for 2 controllers anywhere, even on ebay. i could ask my father (electronic technician) to make one but its seems difficult. i read a guide.

Thanks for previous help and everything !! its really appreciated a lot !

Reply 15 of 25, by renejr902

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i have another question . thanks ( check my previous post too i asked other questions too.)

If i exchange my PCI Trident 1MB for a geforce FX 5200 PCI 128mb , would the dos compatibility be the same ? and same image quality ?

thanks for answer. I dont want to lost any dos compatibility or graphic problem. i just checked the gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/ vga compatibility and it seems geforce fx 5200 wont have any problem with dos games ? but i want to be sure ? what do you think ?

( i can have one for 20$ at least i can play some d3d games in windows, but i dont want to sacrifice any compatibility for dos)

thanks for answers !

Reply 16 of 25, by Oetker

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renejr902 wrote on 2020-07-27, 09:16:

I'm not familiar with your sound card's drivers. Configuring it as WSS seems like a good idea, however often the DOS tools also just allow you to completely disable certain parts of the card.
I don't understand your Win98 issue, you say there's conflicts but also that you can't get the card's drivers to work? In any case, you're best off disabling it in the Windows Device Manager, then it won't take up any resources for certain.

The FX5200 will probably work fine for DOS but it could actually be too modern for some old 3D games. However Using an FX 5200 for old games suggests it's a fine choice.

Reply 17 of 25, by renejr902

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( 5 new pics of my computer below and new question about my Zoltrix 3200 soundcard and gameport, thanks guys)

( read my other topic guys for news about my just new FX 5200, im very happy 😀 )

But About the Soundcard Zoltrix 3200. i installed WSS driver but i disable 401-MPU too , it let me do that. But i dont see a way to completely disable the soundcard ? any idea. ? i played with zoltrix 3200 dos driver and utilities but i dont know if i can disable the soundcard completly and just keep gameport. I tried 10+ dos games and i think the crystal cs4236b sound and music is exactly the same than before. but im not 100% sure. But if i dont install any driver for the Zoltrix 3200, the music in some games has some inteference , stuttering or strange noise or distortion very annoying . So i prefer to completly disable the zoltrix 3200 soundcard if possible to be sure, even if i think its ok with wss dos driver and mpu 401 disabled.

(i think i didnt test the Zoltrix 3200 with SB compatible dos driver until now while running the crystal cs4236b with its sb dos driver in the same time. im not sure i should try this , but i will try it maybe it you think that i should try it)

Thanks for help everyone, if you have any idea ?
Thanks a lot for help Oetker.
Thanks SO MUCH to DIONB, you help me a lot since i asked for help, it was very appreciated !

If someone can answer some questions i asked 2 posts ago go in my NOTES section, go for it , it will be very appreciated! 😉 Thanks guys !! you are a great community here !

You asked for others pictures DIONB, i just took them. hope you can find more info on my board.
the 5 pictures are big. open them and scroll them. thanks .

dionb wrote on 2020-07-26, 22:34:
This is a completely different kettle of fish. The CS4231 is just a codec, not the audio controller. That CMI 8328 is the contro […]
Show full quote
renejr902 wrote on 2020-07-26, 22:11:
ok i got the card. After 2 hours searching the model i found it. i cant find the driver yet, but i have the manual in pdf. […]
Show full quote

ok i got the card. After 2 hours searching the model i found it. i cant find the driver yet, but i have the manual in pdf.

Zoltrix Audio Plus 3200 V.2 Model: AV 305. Chip: with Crystal CS4231A-KL, CMI8328 and DXP44Q
check the picture. It has REAL OPL3 FM even my cs4238b has a OPL3 clone.

I think this card is better than my integrated crystal sound card. Is the Zoltrix better? check the manual:
https://www.manualslib.com/download/848174/Zo … s-3200-V-2.html

This is a completely different kettle of fish. The CS4231 is just a codec, not the audio controller. That CMI 8328 is the controller here.

Basically on paper their specs are the same (SBPro2, WSS, MPU-401), but there the similarity ends. Crystal's CS4236 is a very mature product with excellent SNR and driver support C-Media's CMI8328 was a bit of a dead-end of a then-obscure company with very little support. It has some odd design choices (SB DA and WSS can't be used at the same time, for example) and drivers are rudimentary. C-Media started all over again with the CMI8329/8330, which are excellent chips let down by very cheap cards. That's the other problem here. Zoltrix/AudioExcel was a complete bottom-feeder with cheap, nasty card designs that tended to be quite noisy.

Sound from the onboard CS4236 is almost certain to be better. But you can use this card for its game port. Drivers (init/config apps) and manual available here: http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=1627&menustate=0

I'm still not convinced that you don't just have a game port header on your motherboard though. A better picture or a clear identification of the board would help.

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Reply 18 of 25, by renejr902

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Ok 2 others pictures for 7 in total.
Read my previous post for all info and pictures. Thanks guys .

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Reply 19 of 25, by dionb

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renejr902 wrote on 2020-07-28, 04:24:
( 5 new pics of my computer below and new question about my Zoltrix 3200 soundcard and gameport, thanks guys) […]
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( 5 new pics of my computer below and new question about my Zoltrix 3200 soundcard and gameport, thanks guys)

( read my other topic guys for news about my just new FX 5200, im very happy 😀 )

But About the Soundcard Zoltrix 3200. i installed WSS driver but i disable 401-MPU too , it let me do that. But i dont see a way to completely disable the soundcard ? any idea. ? i played with zoltrix 3200 dos driver and utilities but i dont know if i can disable the soundcard completly and just keep gameport. I tried 10+ dos games and i think the crystal cs4236b sound and music is exactly the same than before. but im not 100% sure. But if i dont install any driver for the Zoltrix 3200, the music in some games has some inteference , stuttering or strange noise or distortion very annoying . So i prefer to completly disable the zoltrix 3200 soundcard if possible to be sure, even if i think its ok with wss dos driver and mpu 401 disabled.

(i think i didnt test the Zoltrix 3200 with SB compatible dos driver until now while running the crystal cs4236b with its sb dos driver in the same time. im not sure i should try this , but i will try it maybe it you think that i should try it)

Sound stuttering is a sign of a resource conflict. Not setting up the card is a bad idea as it will keep whatever defaults it has and they may conflict with the settings of your other card. I already recommended settings to let both work together in DOS. Have you tried those?

Thanks for help everyone, if you have any idea ? Thanks a lot for help Oetker. Thanks SO MUCH to DIONB, you help me a lot since […]
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Thanks for help everyone, if you have any idea ?
Thanks a lot for help Oetker.
Thanks SO MUCH to DIONB, you help me a lot since i asked for help, it was very appreciated !

If someone can answer some questions i asked 2 posts ago go in my NOTES section, go for it , it will be very appreciated! 😉 Thanks guys !! you are a great community here !

You asked for others pictures DIONB, i just took them. hope you can find more info on my board.
the 5 pictures are big. open them and scroll them. thanks .

Yes! That FRU number is the key. FRU is IBM terminology, Field Replaceable Unit, i.e. part number of spare part (which in all their logic is different to part number of original part, even if it is exactly the same part). FRU 07L7353 is googleable and matches an IBM 6562 system board from a PC300PL system.

Here's the technical manual for the board:
http://www.ibmfiles.com/ibmfiles/pc300/65xx_t … information.pdf

And here a fan site:
https://ibmfiles.retropc.se/pages/300pl65xx.html

So, what is it?
- NLX form factor
- i430HX chipset - so 3.3V EDO DIMMs only - SDRAM won't work!
- decent onboard VGA and sound
- very legacy-free Windows-only design

The latter is the problem here: no gameport header at all. Here's a good pic of the relevant area and there's nothing there apart from the COM2 serial header:
59d251e817698_p1210729_2.jpg