VOGONS


First post, by flupke11

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Right, time to clean out the closets and reduce the clutter.
I want a dedicated build for DOS-gaming from 1994 onwards to mid 1998 and including early W98 games.

I also need good midi support as I want to hook up an SC-55 and an MT-32 which I got fairly cheap. I have no experience in midi, so your help is appreciated.

Need to fit: CF-card, Creative DVD-rom, ZIP disk if possible

A) Contestants base system:

1) Aquanta DLX PII 333 on i440LX, early BIOS (no celeron support)
Pro: desktop, Ati Rage3D, riser allows for 3PCI and 3ISA
Contra: desktop case, so just 2 external 5'25" bays and only one 3,5", early BIOS, picky on ram
2) Tyan S1562 Dual Pentium 233 MMX on i430HX and new Dallas
Pro: dual! (cool factor *10), lots of ISA slots, PS2 mouse
Contra: AT powered
3) Intel PR440FX dual Pentium Pro Overdrive on i440FX
Pro: Pro & dual & overdrive (cool factor *100), SCSI, ATX
Contra: just one ISA

B) Ram
1) 64
2) 128
3) max it out (512 on the Tyan, 1GB on the PPro, 192 on the LX)

C) Sound (is it useful to have more than one of these?)
1) AWE64GOLD
2)SB Pro2
3)SB32 CT3670
4)SB16 CT2290
5)SB16 CT2910
6) SB CT4170 Vibra16XV
7) SB CT3980
8) Soundforte Vibra16S
9) ALS100Plus+

D) VGA
1) Matrox G550 PCI
2) Ati Rage 3D II 4MB
3) Appian Graphics Gemini PCI (S3 Savage MX -16MB)
4) Voodoo Banshee Maxi Gamer Phoenix 16MB

E) Add-on
1) Voodoo 2 12MB yes/no
2) Creative CT7230 DX3 en/decoder yes/no

F) Boot (an HDD will be added as D:\)
1) fixed DOM
2) Startech IDE CF with 2 GB Swissbit card

All input is welcome.

Edit: I am aware the Duals just add heat and consume power, a win2k installation will be added to make them feel useful 😊

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-08-11, 22:38. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 7, by Socket3

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DOS and Win9x can't make use of dual cpu setups. The second chip would just consume power and generate heat...

The Rage 3D is not a fitting graphics card for DOS games. It has issues with several titles like Jazz Jackrabbit and Commander Keen to name a few. The Matrox G550 is even worse: https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

Also, both builds will have difficulty running lots of 98 win9x games - Dungeon Keeper, Baldur's Gate, Carmageddon 2, Descent Freespace, Total Annihilation and Forsaken come to mind. They will run, but I don't consider either playable on a 200MHz ppro or a 233MHz pentium MMX. The second CPU will not help whatsoever since like I mentioned before, dos and win9x are not multi-cpu aware so everything will run on one chip.

Last edited by Socket3 on 2020-08-07, 21:40. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2 of 7, by Warlord

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Intel PR440FX single Pentium Pro Overdrive (dual isn't useful)I assume u mean a Pentium II overdrive that works on socket 8
AWE64GOLD
Voodoo Banshee Maxi Gamer Phoenix
Voodoo 2 12MB (for game that doesn't like the banshee)
512 Ram
Startech IDE CF with 2 GB Swissbit card

This would be the strongest system and the one i'd build.

Reply 3 of 7, by Horun

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I agree with Warlord except do not like the idea of just one ISA (considering MIDI and other things that may need ISA). So my choice goes to 440LX. Stay away from Rage card, too many issues under DOS and Win9x for games. Next question is: how many games are you going to play that require Glide to perform well ? That is the answer to whether you need/want a Voodoo. Sorry but am testing some HW in garage and am multitasking so my answers are probably not relevant 😀

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 4 of 7, by Warlord

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i just picked the banshee becasue the other options were bad. Id probably do something like a geforce 2mx PCI, becasue u can use early driver like 6.xx to 8.xx series with low overhead, since slow CPU the geforce2mx + the voodoo 2 would give good compatibility.

Id agree 1 isa slot isnt enough but he has awe64 gold, which is extremely versatile, even tho its not the best for everything, it should work with basically everything.

Reply 5 of 7, by flupke11

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Thanks for the great input. Unfortunately, my PCI-VGA collection is fairly limited.

I can add another option, which is an AGP ATX system based on the Abit BP6, which is more of a 99 system, but as i440LX could handle the Mendocino Celeron, I'd be delighted to include it as an alternative. And yes, it's a dual, and yes that makes it daft for Dos and Win95/98, but I like duals. Nah.

The BP6 would grant me AGP and a proper choice would be the TNT2 Ultra I have, the GF2 is too recent for my taste of this build.

Reply 6 of 7, by Socket3

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Warlord wrote on 2020-08-08, 04:59:

Id probably do something like a geforce 2mx PCI, becasue u can use early driver like 6.xx to 8.xx series with low overhead, since slow CPU the geforce2mx + the voodoo 2 would give good compatibility.

Why? A basic 2D PCI video card like an S3 Trio64 / Virge or a Cirrus Logic CL-GD544x would provide excelent DOS performance and compatibility while being significantly cheaper and more common then a PCI geforce 2 MX. No driver overhead either. In my opinion, using a PCI Geforce/Riva/Radeon on such a build is more trouble then it's worth.

If I had to chose from the parts listed, I'd only pick the Voodoo 2. I have a machine built specifically for this purpose but it doesn't see much use. It consists of a 550MHz K6-3, an Acorp super socket 7 board (can't remember the model), 256MB of SDRAM, a Voodoo 3 3000, a Guillemot Maxi Gamer 64 and a 40GB HDD. It can run most dos games ranging from 1989 trough 1998 as well as win9x games up to 1999, but some are a bit challanging (Homeworld gardens of kadesh level for example). It can be slowed down to 386 DX40 levels using setmul.

Reply 7 of 7, by flupke11

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The Banshee is dead, or at least does a good impression of it. POST errors on each board I try it on.

Based on your comments, I took a long hard think and put together the following system:

Seasonic 200W AT
Acer TYAN S1562D + *32 EDO + 512KB COAST + 2*P1 233MMX (New Dallas)
VGA: I finally settled on using a Matrox Millennium II (with piggyback)
Accelerator: Voodoo2
Audio: AWE64 Gold (no piggyback)
NIC: 3Com ISA 509
5'25" + Gotek
4GB CF, a 32GB is correctly detected as well, and will be used for Win2K/Win98
Plextor IDE CDRW

Now, just one question left before something else won't work:

- is it useful to have another sound card installed, alongside the AWE32?

The general idea of this system is still to run old games (I have found Leisure Suit Larry on 5'25" floppies) up to and including win95. The Voodoo will probably not be used often in this system as it is mainly focused on DOS and the epic midi games (if ever I find the time for that).

Win98 Glide (and also Win2K) will be better covered by a dual PIII-S and a Voodoo 5500. Heavier Win98 and WinXP games will be covered by a fast S478 P4 system + Radeon 9700 Pro in the case of Win98 and a Dual Xeon + Geforce 960 system in the case of WinXP (and Vesta, as an end to use my licences I stupidly bought back then). This should cover all my needs and hopefully clear out the garage (the SO's words).