VOGONS


Reply 20 of 43, by Dmetsys

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You're looking for a magical unicorn, and has probably been resolved multiple times over the years. As stated by others, keep the cards to a maximum of a GeForce 4, or Radeon 8500. If you want to play with newer graphics cards, invest in an i815 or newer motherboard. Radeon 95xx/9600/9700/9800's don't support 3.3V signalling, that's why it won't work.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

BE6-II 1.0 | PIII-500 | 320MB | GeForce 2 MX400
P5A-B | K6-2 300 (100x3) | 256MB | GeForce 2 MX
ECS UM4980 | 5x86-P75 | 32MB | 90C33-ZZ (In progress..)
Toshiba Satellite Pro T2155CDS | Compaq Contura 400C
Macintosh Plus

Reply 21 of 43, by Mamba

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Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-29, 17:58:

You're looking for a magical unicorn, and has probably been resolved multiple times over the years. As stated by others, keep the cards to a maximum of a GeForce 4, or Radeon 8500. If you want to play with newer graphics cards, invest in an i815 or newer motherboard. Radeon 95xx/9600/9700/9800's don't support 3.3V signalling, that's why it won't work.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

Friend, your statements are not correct and you missed the point of the topic.
But I appreciate your contribution.

Reply 22 of 43, by Standard Def Steve

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Yeah, Radeon 9700 and 9800, at least the ATI built ones, work just fine in 3.3v slots. Tested my 9800 Pro in several Slot 1 BX boards without issue.

Standard Def Rigs
Super P3: PIII-S @ 1.63 GHz/FSB155 | 2GB DDR-310 | 6800GT AGP | 500GB 7200 RPM
Super G4: 2x PowerPC 7455 @ 1.5 GHz | 2GB DDR-333 | 7800GS AGP | 300GB 10k RPM
Super G5: 4x PowerPC 970 @ 2.5 GHz | 16GB DDR2-533 | x1950XT PCIe | 512GB SSD

Reply 23 of 43, by darry

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Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-29, 17:58:

You're looking for a magical unicorn, and has probably been resolved multiple times over the years. As stated by others, keep the cards to a maximum of a GeForce 4, or Radeon 8500. If you want to play with newer graphics cards, invest in an i815 or newer motherboard. Radeon 95xx/9600/9700/9800's don't support 3.3V signalling, that's why it won't work.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

Radeon 9500 and 9700 support 3.3V AGP . Radeon 9550 and 9600 do not . Some of the earlier Radeon 9800 support 3.3V AGP , but newer ones do not (depends on whether the card is R350 or R360 based ) .

Reply 24 of 43, by Dmetsys

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Everyone's gotta be a wiki and full of hearsay, hence why I don't post here that much. C'est la vie.

BE6-II 1.0 | PIII-500 | 320MB | GeForce 2 MX400
P5A-B | K6-2 300 (100x3) | 256MB | GeForce 2 MX
ECS UM4980 | 5x86-P75 | 32MB | 90C33-ZZ (In progress..)
Toshiba Satellite Pro T2155CDS | Compaq Contura 400C
Macintosh Plus

Reply 25 of 43, by Mamba

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darry wrote on 2020-12-29, 18:29:
Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-29, 17:58:

You're looking for a magical unicorn, and has probably been resolved multiple times over the years. As stated by others, keep the cards to a maximum of a GeForce 4, or Radeon 8500. If you want to play with newer graphics cards, invest in an i815 or newer motherboard. Radeon 95xx/9600/9700/9800's don't support 3.3V signalling, that's why it won't work.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

Radeon 9500 and 9700 support 3.3V AGP . Radeon 9550 and 9600 do not . Some of the earlier Radeon 9800 support 3.3V AGP , but newer ones do not (depends on whether the card is R350 or R360 based ) .

Correct,
I may be unlucky with a correctly keyed 9800 pro that has no 3.3v support.
In any case, a Quadro FX3000 is on its way.

Reply 26 of 43, by darry

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Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-29, 18:39:

Everyone's gotta be a wiki and full of hearsay, hence why I don't post here that much. C'est la vie.

If you are referring to my last comment about AGP voltage , I would like to point out that what I wrote is corroborated by http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html , which is the very link that you yourself posted but who's information about "Radeon 95xx/9600/9700/9800" AGP voltage you contradicted in that same post of yours .

Reply 27 of 43, by Dmetsys

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darry wrote on 2020-12-29, 19:10:
Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-29, 18:39:

Everyone's gotta be a wiki and full of hearsay, hence why I don't post here that much. C'est la vie.

If you are referring to my last comment about AGP voltage , I would like to point out that what I wrote is corroborated by http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html , which is the very link that you yourself posted but who's information about "Radeon 95xx/9600/9700/9800" AGP voltage you contradicted in that same post of yours .

I don't really care. I done with the arrogance being displayed on this site. Adios. The link was used to inform him of why certain graphics cards won't work, not as a means to be placed on a pedestal.

BE6-II 1.0 | PIII-500 | 320MB | GeForce 2 MX400
P5A-B | K6-2 300 (100x3) | 256MB | GeForce 2 MX
ECS UM4980 | 5x86-P75 | 32MB | 90C33-ZZ (In progress..)
Toshiba Satellite Pro T2155CDS | Compaq Contura 400C
Macintosh Plus

Reply 28 of 43, by Mamba

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Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-29, 18:39:

Everyone's gotta be a wiki and full of hearsay, hence why I don't post here that much. C'est la vie.

Friend,
Please realize that you were the one who made statements even about my intentions.
Don't be angry if someone at least corrects you.
My post was about theoretical capabilities, not about balanced system.
And we all are pretty expert in what to put in a slot with a certain chipset regarding a VGA.

So linking "AGP for sticklers"... Well...

Let's say it is not appropriate here.

No pun intended and feel free to share your personal experience with 440bx.

Reply 29 of 43, by darry

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Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-29, 19:18:
darry wrote on 2020-12-29, 19:10:
Dmetsys wrote on 2020-12-29, 18:39:

Everyone's gotta be a wiki and full of hearsay, hence why I don't post here that much. C'est la vie.

If you are referring to my last comment about AGP voltage , I would like to point out that what I wrote is corroborated by http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html , which is the very link that you yourself posted but who's information about "Radeon 95xx/9600/9700/9800" AGP voltage you contradicted in that same post of yours .

I don't really care. I done with the arrogance being displayed on this site. Adios. The link was used to inform him of why certain graphics cards won't work, not as a means to be placed on a pedestal.

It is not my intention to, so to speak, pour gasoline on a fire, but please consider that

a) I have personally used a Radeon 9700 in a 440BX board (Asus P3B-F most recently) and I can confirm that it works just fine with 3.3V AGP (albeit running at AGP 1x is required in my setup for stability, but that is a different issue). I also recall testing, a long time ago, a Radeon 9800 variant that was properly keyed for 3.3V AGP and posted fine in a 440BX board and worked in DOS (did not doe any Windows testing at the time).

b) If someone links to a site while contracting the information it presents, it is hardly unexpected that someone will point it out . EDIT : This should not be taken personally, as it is, IMHO, a perfectly normal reaction to contradictory information .

c) It is a bit confusing for me that you complain about "hearsay" when that is essentially what our experiences (yours, mine and everyone else's included) are to others . We all read, formulate hypotheses, run tests, take measurements and eventually come to conclusions which we share online. Some of us may be more methodological than others but, in the end, no one is impervious to making erroneous assumptions or making mistakes . Exchanging about our findings, experiences and reference materials is how we all learn, correct misconceptions and eventually (hopefully) come to some kind of consensus . I don't expect anyone to believe everything I write without question and also believe that I am right in applying the same analytical and critical perspective to what others write .

I am saddened to read that you were somehow offended by previous exchanges, but I really do not understand where you see arrogance in all this .

That said, you are obviously under no obligation explain yourself. If, however, you do choose to do so constructively, it is my hope that any ill will, perceived or otherwise, and any hard feelings will be put to rest . If you choose to simply leave, as you suggest you will, I extend my best wishes to you in pursuit of your retro interests , wherever they may take you .

Cheers and no hard feelings on my end .

Darry

Reply 30 of 43, by Mamba

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Alright, to end this, assuming everyone here is an expert and knows exactly the topic, the conclusions appear to be:

- 440BX can handle anything properly keyed and 3.3v compliant.

- Properly keyed VGAs are not guaranteed to be 3.3v compliant (see my 9800pro)

- HSI chip CAN work at 3.3v, but there are issues at driver level (port or VGA side, more likely vga) that prevents correct communication, so we see arctifacts in 3D.

- The most powerful vga that can be used out of the box without mods or limitations (so using 133mhz FSB) is the nv35.

- Experience with Galaxy 6800xt or "mild" modded (blank plastic removed for 3.3v)Asus nv40 is appreciated.

- Remains to be seen if a NV40 card can be modded even if it has no blank spot on the agp port (without electrical traces of course). @J'AWS you can help maybe in that department.

Feel free to integrate.

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Reply 31 of 43, by Cbb

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Mamba wrote on 2020-12-30, 08:48:

- Remains to be seen if a NV40 card can be modded even if it has no blank spot on the agp port (without electrical traces of course). @J'AWS you can help maybe in that department.

I personally killed two working ASUS V9999 cards by cutting this slot on the connecor. They won't start anymore neither in AGP 2x neither AGP 4x/8x slot.
Now I dont wanna try my luck anymore cutting a good 6800Ultra. So it will stay not for 2x board. 😀

Reply 32 of 43, by Mamba

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Cbb wrote on 2020-12-30, 16:30:
Mamba wrote on 2020-12-30, 08:48:

- Remains to be seen if a NV40 card can be modded even if it has no blank spot on the agp port (without electrical traces of course). @J'AWS you can help maybe in that department.

I personally killed two working ASUS V9999 cards by cutting this slot on the connecor. They won't start anymore neither in AGP 2x neither AGP 4x/8x slot.
Now I dont wanna try my luck anymore cutting a good 6800Ultra. So it will stay not for 2x board. 😀

Thank you Cbb.
You mean a cut on a pcb same as the picture?
Or a cut on blank pcb spot like v9999ge ones?

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/ … 3319d420247.jpg

Reply 33 of 43, by j^aws

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FYI, a 7 year old thread with my 6800GT running at AGP 2x on a 440BX:

Re: Would this mod to this Geforce 6800 from AGP 1.5v to 3.3v kill it?

Newer than 6 series involved messing with AGP GART drivers, of which there are various. This is something I didn't document when I tested a 7 series at AGP 2x.

Reply 34 of 43, by pshipkov

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Interesting thread.

In my experience, the graphics performance with this class hardware was almost entirely CPU bound already, considering GPUs from the same time, or later.
Going for later video cards will bring little gain. Get the best CPUs instead.

At least i don't see significant improvement with the bunch of later video cards that i tried.

----

I confirm that GeForce 6800 GT/Ultra works well with modded AGP connector.
For example this fancy SDI version of Quadro FX4000 which is the pro equivalent of GF 6800 Ultra works just fine - https://www.petershipkov.com/temp/retro_pc_im … adro_fx4000.jpg

Last edited by pshipkov on 2021-01-09, 21:06. Edited 1 time in total.

retro bits and bytes

Reply 35 of 43, by The Serpent Rider

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In my experience, the graphics performance with this class hardware was almost entirely CPU bound already

Depends on how much you crank up resolution and other quality features. Although that would be very specific scenario, i.e. if you need 2 or more ISA slots and most powerful AGP card available in one system, but you can't afford or find Pentium 4 ISA motherboards.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 36 of 43, by pshipkov

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Agreed.
We can find many scenarios that don't fit my generalization.
I also find this thread a bit irrational, but considering the spirit of VOGONS, which is all about irrationality (the most positive meaning of it), then irrational + irrational = irrational, everything fits right in. 😁

retro bits and bytes

Reply 37 of 43, by Mamba

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pshipkov wrote on 2021-01-09, 21:01:

Agreed.
We can find many scenarios that don't fit my generalization.
I also find this thread a bit irrational, but considering the spirit of VOGONS, which is all about irrationality (the most positive meaning of it), then irrational + irrational = irrational, everything fits right in. 😁

If I need to be rational, I would never try 95% of what I try to do with oldware.
I am wating for a 6800xt to be delivered here, got it for cheap from Poland.

Reply 38 of 43, by pshipkov

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Mamba wrote on 2021-01-11, 17:00:

If I need to be rational, I would never try 95% of what I try to do with oldware.

+1

Good to hear you got a GF on the way.
And careful with the file tool on that AGP connector.

retro bits and bytes

Reply 39 of 43, by mothergoose729

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Mamba wrote on 2021-01-11, 17:00:
pshipkov wrote on 2021-01-09, 21:01:

Agreed.
We can find many scenarios that don't fit my generalization.
I also find this thread a bit irrational, but considering the spirit of VOGONS, which is all about irrationality (the most positive meaning of it), then irrational + irrational = irrational, everything fits right in. 😁

If I need to be rational, I would never try 95% of what I try to do with oldware.
I am wating for a 6800xt to be delivered here, got it for cheap from Poland.

I love it! Keep it up! For science 🤣 !