VOGONS


First post, by peg

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Hi,

I was wondering if there was any reason to avoid putting long expansion cards into a tower, since they tend to bend downward, which causes stress on the card. I'm specifically thinking of the LAPC-I (and to a lesser extent, the voodoo 5), which is an 8-bit ISA card that is extremely long, and I noticed it flexes a lot since it's only supported partially by the ISA slot. I'm thinking of moving them into a desktop case to avoid the issue, since gravity will be working on the edge of the card instead of flexing it. Is this a legit concern, or am I being overly paranoid?

Thanks!

Reply 1 of 13, by SodaSuccubus

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I'm assuming by "flexing" you are referring to card sag?

That's still an issue today with big beefy GPUS. Usually it's fine but if you feel paranoid about it, head to Amazon and look up "GPU support bracket", you can find little tower shaped brackets that you can place inside your case to help support the card.

Reply 4 of 13, by Tiido

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LAPC should be long enough to fit into the support rails that many cases have for the maximum length cards.

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Reply 5 of 13, by The Serpent Rider

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Is this a legit concern, or am I being overly paranoid?

Yes, you are overly paranoid. LAPC and Voodoo 5 don't have heavy enough components or cooling on PCB to cause sagging.

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Reply 6 of 13, by hyoenmadan

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-20, 17:38:

Yes, you are overly paranoid. LAPC and Voodoo 5 don't have heavy enough components or cooling on PCB to cause sagging.

I don't know about the LAPC, but BGA chipped Voodoo's can be actually f*cked by "sag" deformations in the PCB, caused by both mechanical and temperature stress, as the internal and external solder bumps attaching the chip and die to the PCB weren't very high quality (STB ancient soldering process) and break pretty easy. Many VSA's have died due that disease.

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One of the good things of the IBM MCA specification was it mandating OEMs and IHVs special measures for cases like this. So, if the card was long enough to sag, OEMs were obligated to provide brackets and mechanical support extensions so it could rest in the support slots provided in the case for long or weight cards. It made the card a bit expensive, but it was better protected from mechanical stressing.

Unfortunately this never made to consumer market, plagged with cheap isa cards and PC cases, and latter small PCI designs. If you need it, this is something you have to add by yourself to your build.

Reply 7 of 13, by The Serpent Rider

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external solder bumps attaching the chip and die to the PCB weren't very high quality

It's lead BGA.

caused by both mechanical and temperature stress

Voodoo 5 does not have mechanical stress, it's too light for that and GPUs are located near AGP slot. Temperature stress is not very plausible in normal conditions too, i.e. if you maintain your card.

One of the good things of the IBM MCA specification was it mandating OEMs and IHVs special measures for cases like this. So, if the card was long enough to sag, OEMs were obligated to provide brackets and mechanical support extensions

That's called redundancy. IBM couldn't control weight of OEM partners boards, so it was a correct measure.

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Reply 8 of 13, by hyoenmadan

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-20, 19:05:

It's lead BGA.

I know STB flowing process for Vodoo5's used leaded solder. But for some reason that didn't stopped VSA's dying from internal and/or external damages in the BGA package connection bumps. That's why I said STB manufacturing process sucked... They managed to replicate the issues in RoHS flowing process early days, but with f*cking leaded solder.

PD: Here i refer STB as the card manufacturer based in Mexico mostly. They used to manufacture designs from #9, Diamond, 3dfx and other IHVs, until 3dfx bought them completely in their ending days.

Reply 9 of 13, by cyclone3d

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-20, 17:38:

Is this a legit concern, or am I being overly paranoid?

Yes, you are overly paranoid. LAPC and Voodoo 5 don't have heavy enough components or cooling on PCB to cause sagging.

Heh.. you should see the extreme warpage / sag my original V5-5500 has from when I had it in a tower case. I replaced the stock coolers with beefy socket 7 heatsinks right after I bought it new.

I also don't like any older long cards in a tower case.

The newer video cards with sufficiently thick backplates don't have the sag issue even though they are generally really heavy.

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Reply 10 of 13, by peg

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I have a PCI Voodoo 5, which does sag a bit. The LAPC-I sags like crazy because it only has the 8 bit ISA connector and is ridiculously long, and the old tower case I had didn't have the supports .

Long story short, I moved my stuff to an old AT desktop case. I kind of prefer desktop cases anyway since you can place the big ol CRT right on top.

Reply 11 of 13, by debs3759

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SodaSuccubus wrote on 2020-12-20, 02:30:

I'm assuming by "flexing" you are referring to card sag?

That's still an issue today with big beefy GPUS. Usually it's fine but if you feel paranoid about it, head to Amazon and look up "GPU support bracket", you can find little tower shaped brackets that you can place inside your case to help support the card.

And if, like me, you don't use Amazon because of how they treat the staff and hoard money (I mean, who really can't pay decent sick pay or more than minimum wage when they are worth enough to end world poverty?), you can find them on eBay as well.

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Reply 12 of 13, by cyclone3d

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debs3759 wrote on 2020-12-22, 00:59:
SodaSuccubus wrote on 2020-12-20, 02:30:

I'm assuming by "flexing" you are referring to card sag?

That's still an issue today with big beefy GPUS. Usually it's fine but if you feel paranoid about it, head to Amazon and look up "GPU support bracket", you can find little tower shaped brackets that you can place inside your case to help support the card.

And if, like me, you don't use Amazon because of how they treat the staff and hoard money (I mean, who really can't pay decent sick pay or more than minimum wage when they are worth enough to end world poverty?), you can find them on eBay as well.

Amazon being "worth enough to end world poverty" is a pipe dream. How would that work exactly? You confiscate all the money / assets that Amazon has and redistribute it to the rest of the world? And then what? What happens after that?

The same people that are in poverty still don't have jobs so once they spend what little they get, they are right back where they started.

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Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 13 of 13, by CrossBow777

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I have an LAPC-I installed into a full size tower, however the case depth is too long so there aren't any end supports for full length cards. But I did notice that after about a year of use, that the LAPC-I was starting to have a noticeable warp to it from gravity. So as it turned out, I was able to use an old CDR plastic cannister that seems to fit perfect between the bottom of the case and where the LAPC-I is slotted into the system and have been using that as a support for about 10 years now. Not the most elegant, but again, it does work.

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