VOGONS


Reply 20 of 41, by Doornkaat

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avxstudios wrote on 2021-02-05, 15:14:

If it were to work via a powerleap despite that (just not showing properly in bios), and my only options are 50/60/66 and 1.5, 2, 2.5 and 3 what sort of clocks would it translate to?

The CPU divider is a multiple of the FSB. Is you run the system @66MHz FSB you get ~100MHz(1.5x66) ~133MHz(2x66) ~166MHz(2.5x66) and ~200MHz(3x66).
Some processors will use a different multiplier for some settings though. A K6-2 and up will run at a 6x multiplier (~400MHz@66MHz FSB) with the same setting used for 2x on Pentium CPUs, an unlocked Pentium MMX will run at a 3.5x multiplier (~233MHz@66MHz FSB) when using the Pentiums' 1.5x setting.
Is your COAST module double sided though? Is there a Tag-RAM chip on the other side? I Can't see any cache components on the motherboard itself.

Edit: Fixed mistakes about multiplier settings. Thanks, Sphere!👍

Last edited by Doornkaat on 2021-02-05, 16:24. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 21 of 41, by Sphere478

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Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 15:38:
The CPU divider is a multiple of the FSB. Is you run the system @66MHz FSB you get ~100MHz(1.5x66) ~133MHz(2x66) ~166MHz(2.5x66) […]
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avxstudios wrote on 2021-02-05, 15:14:

If it were to work via a powerleap despite that (just not showing properly in bios), and my only options are 50/60/66 and 1.5, 2, 2.5 and 3 what sort of clocks would it translate to?

The CPU divider is a multiple of the FSB. Is you run the system @66MHz FSB you get ~100MHz(1.5x66) ~133MHz(2x66) ~166MHz(2.5x66) and ~200MHz(3x66).
Some processors will use a different multiplier for the 1.5x setting though. A K6-2 and up will run at a 6x multiplier (~400MHz@66MHz FSB) with the same setting, an unlocked Pentium MMX will run at a 3.5x multiplier (~233MHz@66MHz FSB) when using the 1.5x setting.
Is your COAST module double sided though? Is there a Tag-RAM chip on the other side? I Can't see any cache components on the motherboard itself.

To clarify, the 6x setting on a k6 is achieved by setting the board to 2x

There is cache on the board on both sides of the cpu one side has the coast the other side has surface mount chips

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Reply 22 of 41, by Sphere478

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avxstudios wrote on 2021-02-05, 15:14:
hmm, would a K6 generation processor work via a powerleap despite the bios not supporting K6?, as mentioned earlier I dumped/dec […]
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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 12:58:
that thing has cache on both sides of the processor lol such a weird board! […]
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that thing has cache on both sides of the processor 🤣 such a weird board!

I hate to say it but I think you have a single voltage board. see that header that wasn't installed to the right of the cpu? that's for the dual voltage add on I believe

you need a powerleap, then you can get a nice chip in there mmx, tillamook, cyrix mII k6-2/3/+ I believe are all possible with a upgrade adapter but the most seamless without needing a bios patch is probably a k6 non plus 550 clocked at whatever you can get it to. I think those will show up as a regular k6 in the bios. but a plus will work even if not recognized

does the via chipset have the cacheable ram problem? if so, a k6 + is the way to go as you may be able to get as much as 512mb in that board.

hmm, would a K6 generation processor work via a powerleap despite the bios not supporting K6?, as mentioned earlier I dumped/decompressed the bios and only found the following strings:
6x86-P120+, 6x86-P133+, 6x86-P150+, 6x86-P166+
AMD5k86-P75, AMD5k86-P90, AMD5k86-P100, AMD5k86-P120, AMD5k86-P133, AMD5k86-P150, AMD5k86-P166
PENTIUM, 6x86, AMD5k86

If it were to work via a powerleap despite that (just not showing properly in bios), and my only options are 50/60/66 and 1.5, 2, 2.5 and 3 what sort of clocks would it translate to?

You may have a hidden 75mhz fsb clock setting.

You can get fsbx6 out of a k6 so at least 400mhz on the low end.

Yes if the voltages are made correct you can use the processor even if the bios doesn’t know what it is.

Last edited by Sphere478 on 2021-02-05, 16:22. Edited 1 time in total.

🖥Craziest socket 7 build on a 430tx chipset
🖥Dual socket 7 build

Reply 23 of 41, by Doornkaat

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:18:
Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 15:38:
The CPU divider is a multiple of the FSB. Is you run the system @66MHz FSB you get ~100MHz(1.5x66) ~133MHz(2x66) ~166MHz(2.5x66) […]
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avxstudios wrote on 2021-02-05, 15:14:

If it were to work via a powerleap despite that (just not showing properly in bios), and my only options are 50/60/66 and 1.5, 2, 2.5 and 3 what sort of clocks would it translate to?

The CPU divider is a multiple of the FSB. Is you run the system @66MHz FSB you get ~100MHz(1.5x66) ~133MHz(2x66) ~166MHz(2.5x66) and ~200MHz(3x66).
Some processors will use a different multiplier for the 1.5x setting though. A K6-2 and up will run at a 6x multiplier (~400MHz@66MHz FSB) with the same setting, an unlocked Pentium MMX will run at a 3.5x multiplier (~233MHz@66MHz FSB) when using the 1.5x setting.
Is your COAST module double sided though? Is there a Tag-RAM chip on the other side? I Can't see any cache components on the motherboard itself.

To clarify, the 6x setting on a k6 is achieved by setting the board to 2x

Not to clarify, you're completely right in correcting my mistage. 😅 I'll edit it in that post.

There is cache on the board on both sides of the cpu one side has the coast the other side has surface mount chips

Help me out here, I can't see any onboard cache on this motherboard, only the COAST slot.

Reply 24 of 41, by Sphere478

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@ avxstudios See what you get on the fsb 1-2 1-2 but first set your multiplier really low to avoid overclocking the processor.

Doornkaat it’s up by the ram slots

🖥Craziest socket 7 build on a 430tx chipset
🖥Dual socket 7 build

Reply 25 of 41, by Sphere478

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Btw, I looked it up, I believe you can install 512mb of ram in this. And it appears you can cache all of it with this chipset depending on l2 cache size.

Go on ebay and order four sticks of 128mb 60ns simms non ecc non registered

Then search around for a k6 2+ 570mhz

The final thing you need to find is a powerleap, evergreen, kingston, or whatever voltage interposer. This will be the hard part to find.

Last edited by Sphere478 on 2021-02-05, 16:53. Edited 1 time in total.

🖥Craziest socket 7 build on a 430tx chipset
🖥Dual socket 7 build

Reply 26 of 41, by Doornkaat

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:35:

Doornkaat it’s up by the ram slots

I see the onboard video RAM (marked red) and the VT82C577M data controllers (green) and what I believe to be some buffers (blue). No cache though.

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Reply 27 of 41, by Sphere478

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Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:51:
Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:35:

Doornkaat it’s up by the ram slots

I see the onboard video RAM (marked red) and the VT82C577M data controllers (green) and what I believe to be some buffers (blue). No cache though.

Green is data buffers (sram) unless I’m mistaken. Look at the traces. They go straight to the coast slot

Is that not cache? Check. Lemme know.

🖥Craziest socket 7 build on a 430tx chipset
🖥Dual socket 7 build

Reply 28 of 41, by Doornkaat

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:54:
Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:51:
Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:35:

Doornkaat it’s up by the ram slots

I see the onboard video RAM (marked red) and the VT82C577M data controllers (green) and what I believe to be some buffers (blue). No cache though.

Green is data buffers (sram) unless I’m mistaken. Look at the traces. They go straight to the coast slot

Is that not cache? Check. Lemme know.

That's part of the chipset. Apollo Master is weird like that.😅

Reply 29 of 41, by avxstudios

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:35:

@ avxstudios See what you get on the fsb 1-2 1-2 but first set your multiplier really low to avoid overclocking the processor.

Doornkaat it’s up by the ram slots

So I attempted this, set multiplier to 1.5, booted as is (60mhz), sure enough showed as 90mhz
Then switched FSB jumpers to both 1-2 (the only configuration not shown on the chart) and the system does not post in this state.
Setting jumpers back to 66mhz or lower allows it to post again, so I don't think it has a functioning 75mhz mode.

Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 15:38:

Is your COAST module double sided though? Is there a Tag-RAM chip on the other side? I Can't see any cache components on the motherboard itself.

96PJmef.jpg
Here's a picture of both sides, I'm not that familiar with coast modules to be honest.

Reply 30 of 41, by Sphere478

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Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:59:
Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:54:
Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:51:

I see the onboard video RAM (marked red) and the VT82C577M data controllers (green) and what I believe to be some buffers (blue). No cache though.

Green is data buffers (sram) unless I’m mistaken. Look at the traces. They go straight to the coast slot

Is that not cache? Check. Lemme know.

That's part of the chipset. Apollo Master is weird like that.😅

Like we all said, weird board hahah!!

🖥Craziest socket 7 build on a 430tx chipset
🖥Dual socket 7 build

Reply 31 of 41, by Sphere478

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avxstudios wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:01:
So I attempted this, set multiplier to 1.5, booted as is (60mhz), sure enough showed as 90mhz Then switched FSB jumpers to both […]
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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 16:35:

@ avxstudios See what you get on the fsb 1-2 1-2 but first set your multiplier really low to avoid overclocking the processor.

Doornkaat it’s up by the ram slots

So I attempted this, set multiplier to 1.5, booted as is (60mhz), sure enough showed as 90mhz
Then switched FSB jumpers to both 1-2 (the only configuration not shown on the chart) and the system does not post in this state.
Setting jumpers back to 66mhz or lower allows it to post again, so I don't think it has a functioning 75mhz mode.

Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 15:38:

Is your COAST module double sided though? Is there a Tag-RAM chip on the other side? I Can't see any cache components on the motherboard itself.

96PJmef.jpg
Here's a picture of both sides, I'm not that familiar with coast modules to be honest.

Can anyone find a data sheet for that clock gen? i couldn’t find one showing pinout and settings.

There are more settings to try.

The clock gens on my board use three pins to program the different options my guess is the center of those is ground and the outer pins are the triggers so your hidden setting may involve removing a jumper entirely or closing both sides.

Closing both sides is probably something that should be tried after further investigation. But trying it with jumpers removed is probably safe.

There are a bunch of settings to try with them removed

None
1-2

None
2-3

1-2
None

2-3
None

None
None

Past that there are the options including jumping both sides but further investigation is probably warranted before doing that

🖥Craziest socket 7 build on a 430tx chipset
🖥Dual socket 7 build

Reply 32 of 41, by Doornkaat

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avxstudios wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:01:

Here's a picture of both sides, I'm not that familiar with coast modules to be honest.

No worries! Thanks for the pictures.
That stick is kind of cool. It currently holds 256kB of cache (and the Tag-RAM) but in theory one could solder up to 1MB on there, including another Tag-RAM. At least if I read that PCB right.

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:01:

Like we all said, weird board hahah!!

Weird indeed, but in a good way.😁

Reply 33 of 41, by avxstudios

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:09:

The clock gens on my board use three pins to program the different options my guess is the center of those is ground and the outer pins are the triggers so your hidden setting may involve removing a jumper entirely or closing both sides.

Closing both sides is probably something that should be tried after further investigation. But trying it with jumpers removed is probably safe.

There are a bunch of settings to try with them removed

JK1 Empty, JK2 2-3 = no post
JK1 Empty, JK2 1-2 = no post
JK1 1-2, JK2 Empty = no post
JK1 2-3, JK2 Empty = no post
JK1 Empty, JK2 Empty = no post

I'm reluctant to try outer pins at the moment, as you say it'll require more investigation to make sure it doesn't kill anything

EDIT
Found a datasheet for a W48C60-201G, which I've attached, should be close enough to the W48C60-202G on this board.

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Reply 35 of 41, by avxstudios

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Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:33:

I believe the frequency generator (W48c60-202) has only got 50, 60 and 66MHz settings, sorry. The fourth setting is only for internal testing of the chip.

That's what I'm gathering from that datasheet too, Seems JK1 1-2, JK2 1-2 is definitely a test mode so would explain the complete lack of post.
In honesty though, I'd be fine with a P200 until I can source a upgrade to use an AMD chip, and even if it can only use 400mhz or so of that, it's still a big performance leap.

Reply 36 of 41, by Doornkaat

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avxstudios wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:41:

That's what I'm gathering from that datasheet too, Seems JK1 1-2, JK2 1-2 is definitely a test mode so would explain the complete lack of post.
In honesty though, I'd be fine with a P200 until I can source a upgrade to use an AMD chip, and even if it can only use 400mhz or so of that, it's still a big performance leap.

I agree with you. This is kind of a unique board but with the Apollo Master it isn't a speed demon and a Pentium 133-200 is a fitting CPU. Maybe even a K6 if the VRM can handle that but anything faster belongs on another board imho.

Reply 37 of 41, by avxstudios

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Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:52:

This is kind of a unique board but with the Apollo Master it isn't a speed demon and a Pentium 133-200 is a fitting CPU. Maybe even a K6 if the VRM can handle that but anything faster belongs on another board imho.

Totally agree, I'm just going to find a P54C P200 and a GeForce 2 MX400 and leave it like that, currently it has an old Matrox Millennium II I had spare installed, but the ram expansion card for it is defective so it's only 2MB currently.

I figured rather than a bodge job i'd throw together a little pcb in kikad to make connecting a PCI VGA card to the internal tuner easier, here's what I ended up with :
KXnJTcl.jpg

The existing connector from the tuner plugs in one side and the spare header-to-vga port i have connects to the other, and then attaches to the empty unpopulated connector hole at the back of the case, should be pretty seemless!

Reply 38 of 41, by Sphere478

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Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:33:

I believe the frequency generator (W48c60-202) has only got 50, 60 and 66MHz settings, sorry. The fourth setting is only for internal testing.

darn.

well, depending on how far you wanted to dig into the fsb replacing it is a option. but a iffy one there is another guy here doing that right now in another thread on a dual slot motherboard

avxstudios wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:41:
Doornkaat wrote on 2021-02-05, 17:33:

I believe the frequency generator (W48c60-202) has only got 50, 60 and 66MHz settings, sorry. The fourth setting is only for internal testing of the chip.

That's what I'm gathering from that datasheet too, Seems JK1 1-2, JK2 1-2 is definitely a test mode so would explain the complete lack of post.
In honesty though, I'd be fine with a P200 until I can source a upgrade to use an AMD chip, and even if it can only use 400mhz or so of that, it's still a big performance leap.

yeah you'lllove the k6 at 400 that's what I'm running in my dual pentium 233 computer right now 🤣 a single k6 definitely don't do it without a powerleap though

🖥Craziest socket 7 build on a 430tx chipset
🖥Dual socket 7 build

Reply 39 of 41, by avxstudios

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I have a curious problem, wondering if any of you folks could chime in on it.

At the moment I have a PCI Matrox Millennium II in the Aiwa and that works fine, but I have a spare Radeon R7000 PCI (64mb) that I've tested on other systems, specifically a Asus CUSL2 with a Pentium III 800, and it works there, but when I install it on the Aiwa it does not turn on the monitor (no signal), and even if I connect the VGA output to an external monitor, nothing is displayed.
As I understand it cards such as this are slotted for both 3.3v and 5v as they're universal, the PCI slots in the Aiwa are 5v, Is there a particular reason why this would not work on the Aiwa? or any modification I can do to it, to make it work?