pixelatedscraps wrote on 2021-09-12, 01:23:

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-09-11, 18:47:

Good point I probably won't need top end ryzen ooomph for years. I am projecting 2026 as about when it will be unpossible to avoid going to Win11 or equivalent to get the modern internet experience.

I’ve hated Windows for so long (let’s say Vista was my point of no return) that I cannot imagine having Windows 10 or 11 as my daily drivers. Thank god for Macs, though they were becoming increasingly unreliable before the switch to the M processors. I can at least use them without throwing my arms at the heavens and cursing Microsoft.

I don't get the hate around modern stuff from several users. The bashing of Windows Vista was undeserved IMO (many of them due to the initial issues which were later ironed out but people didn't notice) and it was the basis for Windows 7, even Microsoft isn't longer a Windows centric company and releases proper software for other platforms such as macOS and mobile OSes.

Don't get me wrong, there are things I didn't like from Microsoft either such the forced updates (which can be sorta mitigated and mobile devices even do that) in recent versions of Windows, the harsh CPU requirements and TPM (which was for a long time around but wasn't essential) for Windows 11 which was poorly timed and the company being more focused toward cloud services in recent times.

pixelatedscraps wrote on 2021-09-24, 14:51:

Another step in the right direction and finally some progress being made on this build. […]
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Another step in the right direction and finally some progress being made on this build.

I removed the internals from an old InWin H-500 build I got off eBay and tested it to make sure it booted (another thread entirely) before swapping in the P2L97-DS on the bench table with the just-arrived Seasonic SS-300FS. Also just arrived is a Dell 2001FP in almost pristine condition I got from a Buyee seller in Osaka. Shipping was 3x times the price of the monitor but they’re impossible to find locally and in the end it was about $100 in total.

I installed both CPUs after checking the caps, replacing the CMOS battery and giving everything a good dust off. I loaded up the board with just a single stick of 128MB, a Matrox Millenium II 4MB PCI, a floppy drive and the Quantum 6.4GB - for ease of use (and I’m missing a SCSI cable I believe) I’m setting up the build on the IDE drive first. Once I verify everything is working, I’ll re-paste the heatsinks and delve into SCSI for the first ever time in 30 years of computing 😉

Both CPUs spin up, though one fan sounds like a banshee and here we go, we’re straight back into a typical 1997 boot up sequence.

I’ve been trying to boot off an original (eBay) DOS 6.22 disk 1 but despite configuring the boot sequence correctly and trying out a second 1.44MB drive, it’s not booting off the disk successfully and I am left with constant Press Any Key To Reboot errors.

Ahh, the memories flood back. I can’t wait to get into this over the weekend.

Nice progress there! 👍

I mostly skipped this straight to the Athlon XP/Pentium 4 era. 😁

Here’s the latest parts list for anyone interested, with the note that I've tried my best to stick to 1997-1998 period-correct components where possible. The only two I believe which aren't are the InWin S-500 and the Dell 2001FP, everything else has come from 1997-1998 (or before in the case of the Epson 5.25' floppy)...

CASE: InWin A-500
CPU: 2x Pentium II 333Mhz ‘Deschutes’
MB: Asus P2L97-DS
RAM: 2x 64MB PC133 SDRAM
VGA: Matrox Millenium II 4MB AGP + 4MB upgrade chip
3D: 2x Diamond Monster 3D II 3dfx Voodoo 2 12MB SLI
HDD: 9.1GB Seagate Cheetah 10k ST39103LW
OPTICAL: Plextor PX-20TSi SCSI CD-ROM 12/20x, Yamaha CRW4416E CD-RW 4x4x16, Panasonic 1.44MB 3.5’ FDD, EPSON SD-600 1.2MB 5.25’ FDD
SCSI: Adaptec 2940U2W
PSU: Seasonic SS300-FS
SOUND: Soundblaster AWE64 Gold CT4390
MONITOR: Dell 2001FP
KEYBOARD: Intergraph ConcertMaster Multimedia Keyboard
JOYSTICK: CH Flightstick Pro
SPEAKERS: Roland MA-12C

Don't know how I missed a dual Slot 1 build, Slot's and multiple processors, 2 out of top 5 favorite things!
I also did the SMP/SLI thing, just has a nice ring to it, besides more is always better!
I may have missed it but what OS are you running?
and while I actually like the AWE64, for me I'd prefer a card that can do EAX for a Windows build. but hey, its your build!

chinny22 wrote on 2021-09-28, 10:46:

Don't know how I missed a dual Slot 1 build, Slot's and multiple processors, 2 out of top 5 favorite things! I also did the SMP/ […]
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Don't know how I missed a dual Slot 1 build, Slot's and multiple processors, 2 out of top 5 favorite things!
I also did the SMP/SLI thing, just has a nice ring to it, besides more is always better!
I may have missed it but what OS are you running?
and while I actually like the AWE64, for me I'd prefer a card that can do EAX for a Windows build. but hey, its your build!

I think at times like this when discussing components that are roughly a quarter of a century old it's less a case of 'that doesn't make sense' and more 'why not?' 😉

Currently, I'm actually only running Windows 98 SE on this build. I have a tale of woe regarding 3 SCSI drives that were originally and separately planned for this build (a dual boot of Windows 98 SE and Windows NT 4.0). The first Seagate Cheetah 9.1GB drive I purchased off eBay wasn't able to initialise properly and is headed to e-waste; the second was a Western Digital 9.18GB Ultra2 LVD unit I didn't know was incompatible with my 2940U2W; the third is a Quantum Atlas III 18.2GB that whines like a tabby in heat and the fourth, well I said there were only 3 but the 4th is another Quantum (Dell) Atlas 9.2GB its way to Hong Kong right now. Fingers crossed it arrives undamaged and without the banshee sound effects.

I am actually looking for a good sound card that can do EAX but I'm a little tight for PCI slots with this motherboard - unless I swap the Voodoo2 SLI for an Obsidian X-24 I've got boxed up, it would mean freeing up another slot though. Any recommendations?

pixelatedscraps wrote on 2021-10-13, 14:06:

I am actually looking for a good sound card that can do EAX but I'm a little tight for PCI slots with this motherboard - unless I swap the Voodoo2 SLI for an Obsidian X-24 I've got boxed up, it would mean freeing up another slot though. Any recommendations?

You can actually get both SB AWE64 and a PCI sound card working at the same time if you have enough free slots, it's done by connecting from the line-out port from one sound card into the line-in from the other one.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-10-13, 14:13:

pixelatedscraps wrote on 2021-10-13, 14:06:

I am actually looking for a good sound card that can do EAX but I'm a little tight for PCI slots with this motherboard - unless I swap the Voodoo2 SLI for an Obsidian X-24 I've got boxed up, it would mean freeing up another slot though. Any recommendations?

You can actually get both SB AWE64 and a PCI sound card working at the same time if you have enough free slots, it's done by connecting from the line-out port from one sound card into the line-in from the other one.

Interesting, I didn’t know that was how it was done, I assumed you switched output devices in Windows.

Does anyone have any period-correct recommendations for a good Windows PCI sound card with EAX?

pixelatedscraps wrote on 2021-10-13, 14:50:

Interesting, I didn’t know that was how it was done, I assumed you switched output devices in Windows.

You can still switch between output devices thru the Multimedia option within Control Panel if you installed the drivers for both SB AWE64 and the PCI sound card. The line-out to line-in connection was to avoid physically swapping the connections, it also allows some interesting combinations depending of the configuration and sound cards installed.

Does anyone have any period-correct recommendations for a good Windows PCI sound card with EAX?

You could go with the SB Live! card as it's the most period-correct, make sure that you get a revision that supports the VXD retail drivers for Windows 98.

First tentative 3DMark 99 Max (1024x768) benchmarks in Windows 98 SE with the following config. I will post a comparison with the Obsidian X-24 shortly as well. Benchmarks are 3DMark 99 Max and 3DMark 2000 Pro but if anyone has any suggestions for better ones, I'd be happy to run those:

2687 - 3DMarks
3145 - CPU 3DMarks

- 333Mhz Deschutes (single / stock)
- Asus P2L97-DS (bios ver 1008 beta)
- 256MB RAM
- Matrox Millenium II 4MB AGP
- Diamond Monster 3D II Voodoo2 SLI 12MB (FastVoodoo 4.6.1)
- 6.4GB Quantum Fireball SE

That seems a bit low for an SLI setup, my Dell Dimension XPS D333 with a single Voodoo 2 gets 2467 3DMarks and 3156 CPU Marks.

EDIT: Oh wait, that's 1024x768 not 800x600 - scratch that 🤣

I think its a little low too but the cpu could be the bottle neck.

Warlord wrote on 2021-10-14, 07:37:

I think its a little low too but the cpu could be the bottle neck.

Yeah, at less than PII-500 speeds SLI adds little to no performance, but a free resolution upgrade.

Running 800x600 benchmarks now, will update soon.

3DMark 99 Max @ 1024x768

Quantum3D Obsidian X-24 SLI

2681 - 3DMarks
3121 - CPU 3DMarks

pixelatedscraps wrote on 2021-10-13, 14:06:

the second was a Western Digital 9.18GB Ultra2 LVD unit I didn't know was incompatible with my 2940U2W;

How so? They should be compatible.

mR_Slug wrote on 2021-10-14, 21:33:

pixelatedscraps wrote on 2021-10-13, 14:06:

the second was a Western Digital 9.18GB Ultra2 LVD unit I didn't know was incompatible with my 2940U2W;

How so? They should be compatible.

Wondering about the same. As long as you use proper adapters should be no issue. Using a LVD drive myself with the same controller.

mR_Slug wrote on 2021-10-14, 21:33:

pixelatedscraps wrote on 2021-10-13, 14:06:

the second was a Western Digital 9.18GB Ultra2 LVD unit I didn't know was incompatible with my 2940U2W;

How so? They should be compatible.

I guess this means I have the wrong cables and wrong adapter then, I’ll keep hunting and keep that in the line marked ‘replacements one day’ for when the other HDDs start failing.

Now for the move into its rightful home. Believe it or not, I’m still waiting for a couple of pieces to arrive:

• Slot 1 SECC heatsink to match (as closely as possible) with CPU0 - you may notice a zip tied Noctua A6, unfortunately I have yet to come across an SECC1 heatsink that fits an A6 with standard screws.

• 4x 64MB Micron PC133 SDRAM to fill up the MB with matching sticks.

Regarding the drives, which ones to include? All the CD-ROM / CDRW units are period-correct and from either late 1997 or early 1998. The ZIP / FDD drives are unfortunately undated.

I’m thinking it’ll be two of the following from top to bottom. As much as I love the Plextor brand, I feel the blank faced Toshiba unit would look great next to the classic 90’s Creative logo.

The unselected drive will go towards my next build - a dual Tualatin build from 2001.

• Plextor CD-ROM PX-20TSi
• Creative RW4224E
• Toshiba XM-6102D

The tricky thing is: do I place the StarTech rear expansion slot exhaust fan above the Matrox where I don’t waste a PCI slot or more effectively above the first Voodoo2 card?

Common sense prevails. It’s better to have a spare PCI slot. I love how you can reverse the StarTech to either exhaust from the bottom or the top orientation. I also love how the company keeps making weird and wonderful and seemingly unnecessary gadgets like these in 2021.

And here was I coming from multiple years of ITX and SFF builds enjoying all this space when the reality sets in - I will lose two of my RAM slots if I fill this baby up.

Some tight squeezes in the end, particularly with such a short 20p power cable and I think this is may be one of the first times I’ve ever used up all the molex adapters in a build from the 90s.

I also love the slide out motherboard tray on the A-500 - though you need to be careful when using a slot 1 and slide it out very gently.

All in all, i’m pretty happy. I have a suspicion this 1.44mb FDD might be dying so may need to source a replacement as I only have one left in my test bench. I also have a 92mm / 120mm L-shape fan bracket I can install on one of the expansion slots that will blow air over the cards, though I wish there was a way to create a proper exhaust with another Noctua somewhere - without cutting into the case.

Once the matching heatsink for CPU1 and the new RAM arrives, I’ll tidy up the cabling a bit better.

I’m probably over obsessing but has anyone found an exhaust fan shroud / L-bracket that screws into the ventilation hole area of the back panel?

Right now, I’ve got a Noctua A12x25 as intake with the Seasonic PSU fan and the dinky StarTech expansion slot as sole exhaust fans - clearly inadequate but perhaps I’ve been spoiled by modern case designs.