VOGONS


First post, by ultranothing

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Hey all! I've got the following system:

P3B-F rev 1.04
PIII 650EB
SiI 3114 sata-PCI card
512MB RAM
ASUS V7700 PRO

I also have a SB LIVE 0100 PCI audio card, but when it's plugged in, the PC doesn't start. Or...post...or, whatever it is that is preventing the monitor from getting a signal. Everything runs butter smooth without the audio card! But obviously I'd like to hear it 😀

I'm thinking it might have something to do with the random BIOS hardware errors I'm receiving. On boot, I'll get a message that a hardware issue was detected and when I go into the BIOS to check the error, it's showing that the 5v is at -6v and that reading is in red. It also will randomly change the CPU ID at boot to a 300EB or a 450EB depending on, I guess, how it's feeling at the time. I've got the MB set to jumper-free mode and have the CPU clocked at 133/33 with 1.65v, as per the specs from Intel.

I've got everything powered by a Rosewill 450 Watt Gaming Computer Power Supply, 80 Plus Bronze PSU, ARC 450. It's a 24 pin connector going into the 20 pin on the MB and the other 4 pins are just kinda hanging out there.

I've tried the sound card in all available PCI slots but get the same result each time.

If there's any red flags or alarm bells going off, please let me know! I'm not entirely sure how to fix this 🙁

Reply 1 of 16, by cyclone3d

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Is the power supply you are using a known good power supply? The motherboard seems to think it is faulty.

Have you tried a different known good power supply?

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 2 of 16, by auron

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ultranothing wrote on 2021-03-25, 23:17:

I've got the MB set to jumper-free mode and have the CPU clocked at 133/33 with 1.65v, as per the specs from Intel.

no, what you have there is a 133mhz FSB CPU on a 100mhz FSB mainboard, so you're overclocking the bus by 33% right now. either set the bus to 100mhz and run the CPU at reduced clocks, or get an actual 100mhz FSB model.

and that PSU is really suboptimal as its a newer group-regulated design geared towards 12V, so since there's almost no load on 12V and comparatively a lot of load on 5V, voltages can get out of spec.

Reply 3 of 16, by cyclone3d

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I would think that the specs on the PSU should be fine. Especially since it is a newer CPU. I was buying up the Seasonic SS-350ET PSUs on eBay when they were cheap. I've got them in systems ranging from 486 to Pentium III.
They are rated at 20A for 5v and it looks like that Rosewill is rated for 15A on the 5v rail.

That should be plenty for a Pentium III setup, especially when you take into account that about 90% + of the PSUs that were sold back then would have literally burst into flames if they were asked to supply anywhere near the amperage printed on the stickers.

Back then, most custom systems were built with those craptastic Deer branded and similar power supplies that probably were only capable of maybe 50% of their rated power if that.

The suggested power supply for a Geforce 2 Pro like what the OP has was a measly 200w.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce2-pro.c795

The power draw of a Geforce 2 GTS was a measly 9w so that wouldn't cause a problem. The rest of the board may be a few more watts, but that would most likely be distributed between the 3.3, 5 and 12v rails.

Pentium III 650 is ~22w

The rest of the components are not going to draw that much.

You even had newer systems such and Pentium 4 systems from OEMs coming with even smaller power supplies than 200w.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 4 of 16, by ultranothing

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no, what you have there is a 133mhz FSB CPU on a 100mhz FSB mainboard, so you're overclocking the bus by 33% right now. either set the bus to 100mhz and run the CPU at reduced clocks, or get an actual 100mhz FSB model.

So I just spent the last few days tinkering with all of the DIPs. I set the jumper back and forth from 3.5 to 3.65v, played with all sorts of frequency and voltage configs - I even set up the board for automatic settings (I have a choice between 350mhz and 400, I believe...) I set the thing to 100mhz, 66mhz...NOTTA!

No setting seems to work. The monitor just doesn't get a signal with the SB0100 plugged in.

There's a lot of settings in the BIOS but I'm just not super comfortable toying with them so if anyone could offer any more suggestions, I'd be down to give them a go!

Reply 7 of 16, by Doornkaat

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Guessing the board is actually complaining about -5V: Your PSU is too modern to have a -5V rail. If -5V isn't present you'll get some bogus reading. This is normal, try setting the BIOS to ignore the -5V value.

If the PC doesn't turn on (i.e. no fans running, no LEDs lighting up etc.) there's most likely a short triggering the PSU's short circuit protection.
I would also recommend you try the sound card in another system to see if it is the culprit.

Reply 8 of 16, by ultranothing

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Doornkaat wrote on 2021-03-28, 06:04:

Guessing the board is actually complaining about -5V: Your PSU is too modern to have a -5V rail. If -5V isn't present you'll get some bogus reading. This is normal, try setting the BIOS to ignore the -5V value.

If the PC doesn't turn on (i.e. no fans running, no LEDs lighting up etc.) there's most likely a short triggering the PSU's short circuit protection.
I would also recommend you try the sound card in another system to see if it is the culprit.

I did set the 5v to ignore mode. The settings I've got on the freq are showing a 600EB at post, so I think those are good.

I went ahead last night and ordered a 600E with a 100mhz FSB. In the meantime I'm going to throw the sound card into an older Gateway 3115 I've got and see if maybe it's just a bum card. I bought it from a guy in Chechloslovakia on eBay and it went through hell getting here...so...

Reply 9 of 16, by Doornkaat

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Good luck with the new CPU and card! 😃
Don't disable +5V monitoring though. If that rail really is out of spec it's good to know. My guess was based on the assumption you mistyped -5V.
-6V on the +5V rail is certainly a wrong reading though.

Reply 10 of 16, by ultranothing

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Doornkaat wrote on 2021-03-28, 18:32:

Good luck with the new CPU and card! 😃
Don't disable +5V monitoring though. If that rail really is out of spec it's good to know. My guess was based on the assumption you mistyped -5V.
-6V on the +5V rail is certainly a wrong reading though.

Hi! Yes sir, it is reading -6.14v on the -5v. Sorry for my ambiguity 🤣

Or, I should say it *was* reading that until I installed the new 600E 100mhz CPU. Now it's doing the same thing it was doing when I had the sound card in. What's weird, though, is that the sound card isn't in. But yeah, no signal to the monitor. ..

Is this common? Or is it just me? I get the board from eBay, it's listed with a pic of a 1.04 P3B-F and I get sent a 1.03 with a bad AGP port...

I get a 1tb SATA drive from eBay and it comes DOA...

I order 2 sticks of PC100 256mb ram and wait a week for them to tell me they don't actually have it.

Order a SB0100 from the Czech Republic and it may be DOA (I have not had a chance to test it on the other system)

Now I order a 600E PIII and *it* might be DOA?

OR is there something else going on? Like I said, now the sound card is OUT and the new CPU is IN and it's STILL doing the no signal thing.

Ya know what? While I've got you on the line, lemme stick the old 600EB in here and see what happens...

Okay, that works, still...

So what in the s#!+ of f%@k is going AWNNNN!!?

Edit: no bios beep codes, either. I even tested the internal speaker by booting it sans CPU just to be sure. It sounded like an ambulance so I know it functions.

Edit 2: Regarding "If the PC doesn't turn on (i.e. no fans running, no LEDs lighting up etc.) there's most likely a short triggering the PSU's short circuit protection."

The fans come on and the HDD whirs up, and the HDD led shows activity. I'm curious to see if it's still running fine, just with no monitor signal. I'm gonna get back in there and insert a beep or two into the autoexec.bat or config.sys or whatever and see if I can hear it when the "new" CPU/sound card is in, just for laughs.

Reply 11 of 16, by ultranothing

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Warlord wrote on 2021-03-28, 04:31:

test the card in another computer to see if its bad or not. and ya the psu sounds bad replace it asap.

Confirmed. Same issue in the other computer. Sound card in = no monitor signal. Sound card out = normal operation.

What does this say about the sound card? No good?

And also, just out of curiosity, how *does* a bad sound card prevent the signal from reaching the monitor?

Reply 12 of 16, by weedeewee

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ultranothing wrote on 2021-03-31, 21:27:
Confirmed. Same issue in the other computer. Sound card in = no monitor signal. Sound card out = normal operation. […]
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Warlord wrote on 2021-03-28, 04:31:

test the card in another computer to see if its bad or not. and ya the psu sounds bad replace it asap.

Confirmed. Same issue in the other computer. Sound card in = no monitor signal. Sound card out = normal operation.

What does this say about the sound card? No good?

And also, just out of curiosity, how *does* a bad sound card prevent the signal from reaching the monitor?

I'm wondering...
does your pc actually boot with the soundcard in it?
because if it doesn't... due to the soundcard just occupying the pci/isa bus and thus locking up the system,
then the system doesn't boot and there won't be any video output
.

check the emu10k1 chip, if any pins are loose or bent and shorting to other pins.

Reply 13 of 16, by ultranothing

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weedeewee wrote on 2021-03-31, 21:39:
I'm wondering... does your pc actually boot with the soundcard in it? because if it doesn't... due to the soundcard just occup […]
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I'm wondering...
does your pc actually boot with the soundcard in it?
because if it doesn't... due to the soundcard just occupying the pci/isa bus and thus locking up the system,
then the system doesn't boot and there won't be any video output
.

check the emu10k1 chip, if any pins are loose or bent and shorting to other pins.

No. That was the problem. There would be no signal to the monitor when the sound card was in. I replicated the problem with another computer. When the sound card is unplugged, the computers run normally.

I'll check the emu10k1. First I'll have to find out what that is and then I'll have to find out *where* that is and then I'll report back here. Thanks!

Reply 14 of 16, by cyclone3d

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It really isn't worth trying to repair a Sound Blaster Live! card in the first place unless it is something super simple. The EMU10k1 is the largest chip on there and you won't find another one unless you take it off another card.

In the distant past, I have either one or two different Live! cards die. Never caused a no-post situation though. Just no more sound or no more being detected in Windows.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 15 of 16, by ultranothing

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-03-31, 22:12:

It really isn't worth trying to repair a Sound Blaster Live! card in the first place unless it is something super simple. The EMU10k1 is the largest chip on there and you won't find another one unless you take it off another card.

In the distant past, I have either one or two different Live! cards die. Never caused a no-post situation though. Just no more sound or no more being detected in Windows.

Yeah, it's not a super special card. It was a good deal and has (reportedly) respectable DOS compatibility so I picked it up for $25 or whatever it was.

All the pins look okay. I'm going to let my camera charge and take a close-up. I'm looking around the board and it appears everything is as it should be, but I'm a novice so maybe someone else could look it over and be like, "ah! I see your problem! The XG9Q appears to have exploded" or whatever.

I think I'll pick up another sound card. Any recommendations on one with decent compatibility for DOS games, 1978 to 1999? I've got FreeDOS set up with Total DOS Launcher and I've got 7000 DOS games (many of which need to be configured, etc., but they ARE there!) so I'd like something that isn't going to be too troublesome.

Separate topic, I know.

Reply 16 of 16, by dionb

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ultranothing wrote on 2021-03-28, 02:51:

Sorry! I don't know how much of a difference this makes, but I've actually got a 600EB, not a 650EB...

No surprise there as the 650EB doesn't exist. The "B" indicates 133MHz FSB, and 650 isn't a full or half multiple of 133. 600EB and 667EB are the nearest options.

ultranothing wrote on 2021-03-31, 22:42:

[...]

Yeah, it's not a super special card. It was a good deal and has (reportedly) respectable DOS compatibility so I picked it up for $25 or whatever it was.

That's not a particularly good deal for an SBLive, and if it's DOS compatibility you're after, it's one of the worst options out there, both in terms of nasty TSRs needed and the sound it makes if you get it to run.

All the pins look okay. I'm going to let my camera charge and take a close-up. I'm looking around the board and it appears everything is as it should be, but I'm a novice so maybe someone else could look it over and be like, "ah! I see your problem! The XG9Q appears to have exploded" or whatever.

I think I'll pick up another sound card. Any recommendations on one with decent compatibility for DOS games, 1978 to 1999? I've got FreeDOS set up with Total DOS Launcher and I've got 7000 DOS games (many of which need to be configured, etc., but they ARE there!) so I'd like something that isn't going to be too troublesome.

Separate topic, I know.

Firstly, MS-DOS and the IBM PC weren't released until 1981, so not sure what you want from 1978-1981 but you'll almost certainly need an emulator for whatever system it was to run it. Sound hardware in that era was virtually non-existent, so not something to worry about. The first widely supported PC sound option was the AdLib card from 1987.

Then "isn't going to be too troubleshome" - in term of DOS sound that means a non-PnP ISA card. The P3B-F has an ISA slot, so you're in luck there. As for which card... given you seem quite new to this business, I'd recommend to keep it as simple as possible, with a card that's 100% hardware compatible with AdLib and Soundblaster.

The most fool-proof option is a Creative Sound Blaster Pro 2 CT1600. It's perfectly compatible with AdLib, Sound Blaster and SBPro2 (because it is one 😉 ). Just two issues: 1) it's pretty primitive, for the 1995-1999 era you really want something more modern supporting 16b and 22kHz/44kHz stereo and 2) old Creative stuff is very sought-after so these things are stupidly expensive for what they do.

Sound Blaster 16 is a minefield with many, many models and almost as many bugs. The CT2230 and CT2290 are about as solid as they come, with real OPL3 (AdLib sounds), low noise levels, and just clicking and mild MIDI bugs - but also expensive.

Cheaper alternative that would still be pretty compatible and less buggy would be something based on the OPTi 929 or 930 (but not 931) chipsets. These have pretty bulletproof generic drivers, have a 1:1 OPL3 clone (or rarely the real thing) and support AdLib, Sound Blaster (Pro 2) and WSS for 16b sound (no SB16 though), and the MIDI is bug-free. Compatibility is usually pretty good, worst issues are missing or reversed stereo. They can be had on eBay for < EUR 10. Here's a write-up of one, including drivers (actually not drivers as such, just an initialization program that does its job and then terminates, leaving the card in usable state - it works on any 929 card) https://www.philscomputerlab.com/82c929a.html