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First post, by oguzog

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Hello Vogoners!

I want to build 3 systems.

I will share my pc parts inventory which you can suggest me to use.... But, also, you can suggest a card or mainboard out of my inventory as well, I can try to find and buy them.

Let's have a look at each system.

System I
This machine is going to be the strongest and the most stable Voodoo 2 SLI system. I've checked Phil's guide on this and build a system as follows;

Mobo: GA-6VXE7 Rev3.0
CPU: Pentium III-933
Ram: 512MB
3D GPU: 2x 3DFX Voodoo 2 12MB SLI (using fast voodoo drivers I can see "SLI Detected" w/o any problem).
OS: Win98SE
Audio: YOU SAY 😀
2D GPU: YOU SAY 😀 (I tried with Matrox G450+ but if you have a better suggestion you're welcome)

System II
This machine purpose is very straightforward. I do have a Roland MT32 device and all peripherals cables needed to connect (no mpu, I will use softmpu). Mostly I will play Lucas Adventure games and other MT32 supported titles. Only dos games.
For this purpose, I've chosen a 486 system.

Mobo: Mitac IH4077CN
CPU: YOU SAY 😀
Ram: YOU SAY 😀
Graphics: Cirus Logic VLB Card (I only have one VLB card I will use it. Any other suggestions or am I fine with that)?
OS: Dos 6.22
Audio: YOU SAY 😀

System III
This machine will be somewhere in the middle. Swiss knife machine. It will support windows games and also dos games (which can't be playing on 486) I "maybe" use My Roland SC-55 with this machine too but not necessarily. Because I am more an adventure gamer than I am a fps player.
For this purpose, I thought Pentium system.

Mobo: Tekram P5T30-B4E
CPU: YOU SAY 😀
Ram: YOU SAY 😀
Graphics: YOU SAY 😀
OS: Dos 6.22 + Windows 95 OSR2 (or Win98?) (or just pure Dos 6.22 for late dos games?
Audio: YOU SAY 😀

Let's see my inventory (in case any misidentifying cards, I've uploaded all my cards front and back photos as follows you can also check them)

https://yadi.sk/d/rrUxxd53HbmyZw

MOBO
Mitac IH4077CN (486)
P5T30-B4E (Pentium)
GA-6VXE7 Rev3.0 (PentiumIII)

CPU
486dx2-66
486dx2-100
2xOverdrive
P75
P100
2xP133
P150
2xP166MMX
2xP200MMX
2x PIII-450 Slot
PIII-800
PIII-933

Audio
CT4810
Replica Ad Lib (Home Made)
SB0100
CT4170
Terratec Fortemedia TT801-QD
2x CT4520 (Awe64)
2x CT4500 (Awe64)
CT2980 (SB16)
CT3910 (Awe32)
CT3990 (Awe32)

GPU
Matrox G200 AGP
Matrox G450+
Cirrus Logic Vesa Local Bus
Matrox Millennium 2MB
3xS3 Virge DX
2xS3 Trio
2xSLI Voodoo 2 3dfx 12MB
Diamond Edge 2120 Sega Saturn Edition
3xRadeon 7000 PCI
Asus Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
2xTNT2
FX5200
LEADTEK WinFast A340T
Abit TX600PRO-128
Asus GTS250

Last edited by oguzog on 2021-03-30, 08:04. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 23, by dionb

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oguzog wrote on 2021-03-29, 11:26:
System I This machine is going to be the strongest and the most stable Voodoo 2 SLI system. I've checked Phil's guide on this an […]
Show full quote

System I
This machine is going to be the strongest and the most stable Voodoo 2 SLI system. I've checked Phil's guide on this and build a system as follows;

Mobo: GA-6VXE7 Rev3.0
CPU: Pentium III-933
Ram: 512MB
3D GPU: 2x 3DFX Voodoo 2 12MB SLI (using fast voodoo drivers I can see "SLI Detected" w/o any problem).
OS: Win98SE
Audio: YOU SAY 😀
2D GPU: YOU SAY 😀 (I tried with Matrox G450+ but if you have a better suggestion you're welcome)

Audio:
- best quality and in your list: SBLive
- most nostalgic (subjective): Aureal Vortex A3D 2.0

Video:
- pretty irrelevant if this is Voodoo all the way. Matrox G4xx gives sharpest video you can get, can't think of reason to recommend anything else.

System II This machine purpose is very straightforward. I do have a Roland MT32 device and all peripherals cables needed to conn […]
Show full quote

System II
This machine purpose is very straightforward. I do have a Roland MT32 device and all peripherals cables needed to connect (no mpu, I will use softmpu). Mostly I will play Lucas Adventure games and other MT32 supported titles. Only dos games.
For this purpose, I've chosen a 486 system.

Mobo: Mitac IH4077CN
CPU: YOU SAY 😀
Ram: YOU SAY 😀
Graphics: Cirus Logic VLB Card (I only have one VLB card I will use it. Any other suggestions or am I fine with that)?
OS: Dos 6.22
Audio: YOU SAY 😀

MT-32 is relatively tough. That's the era before Dos4GW extenders, so conventional memory is critical and you want to avoid hardware that needs TSRs. Strictly speaking that includes SoftMPU. It's also pre-Miles Audio, so hardware compatibility is key. And stuff tends to be speed-sensitive too.

For the ultimate ( 😜 ) challenge, I'd aim for getting Ultima 7 to run it doesn't need SoftMPU, but that aside it ticks every box:
- needs maximum conventional memory
- eats "100% compatible" sound cards for lunch
- has a custom 'Voodoo memory manager' that sabotages most tricks to slow down faster systems.

For this I'd recommend:
- 486DX-33 CPU. Your DX2-66 is overpowered, I'd shell out on a slower one for MT-32 games.
- 2MB of RAM is enough, but other games may want 4MB or 8MB. Some people prefer 40MB to put the whole game into a RAMdisk to run it faster...
- Cirrus Logic VGA cards are fine for DOS only.
- An original Sound Blaster for digital audio. If that's too expensive, build a replica yourself. None of your cards are an ideal match, but you could try with the CT3910. That also gives you real OPL.
- Some other card for bug-free MPU-401 MIDI. An intelligent-mode MIDI adapter (Roland MPU-401, MusicQuest, other clones or modern HardMPU/Orpheus cards) would be perfect, but any card with reliable bug-free MIDI will do the trick. I like AZT2316 and ALS100-based cards for this (the latter is SB16 compatible, although that's overkill for this system) as both are cheaply available and work with no nonsense. None of your cards is suitable as all the ISA cards have buggy SB16 MIDI (or no MIDI at all), and the PCI cards require TSRs.

System III This machine will be somewhere in the middle. Swiss knife machine. It will support windows games and also dos games ( […]
Show full quote

System III
This machine will be somewhere in the middle. Swiss knife machine. It will support windows games and also dos games (which can't be playing on 486) I "maybe" use My Roland SC-55 with this machine too but not necessarily. Because I am more an adventure gamer than I am a fps player.
For this purpose, I thought Pentium system.

Mobo: Tekram P5T30-B4E
CPU: YOU SAY 😀
Ram: YOU SAY 😀
Graphics: YOU SAY 😀
OS: Dos 6.22 + Windows 95 OSR2 (or Win98?)
Audio: YOU SAY 😀

Your description is a bit vague here. I don't see the added value for Windows games, just about anything that would run on this would run (better) on the Voodoo machine too. I'd use this for late DOS games only.

CPU: P200MMX
RAM: 64MB is max DOS can sensibly use - and max that the i430TX chipset can cache anyway.
Graphics: VESA support is key, so go for nVidia or S3 (or 3Dfx). Here card quality is more important than exact chipset. A lot of low-end S3 cards have 'washed out' low-contrast output. Some el-cheapo TNT2-M64 cards do as well. Go for whichever S3 Trio/Virge or TNT2/FX5200 gives best output. If you are using a TFT, the FX5200 might help with DVI instead of VGA.
Audio: late DOS pairs nicely with one of the AWEs. The 64s have less noisy output, but no easy RAM extension. The 32s let you add a SIMM. If you want to mess around with sound fonts go AWE32, otherwise 64.
MIDI: once again, none are perfect - but as conventional memory is far less critical in late DOS, you could use the Terratec Fortemedia TT801-QD for non-buggy MIDI.

Reply 3 of 23, by oguzog

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dionb wrote on 2021-03-29, 13:43:

any card with reliable bug-free MIDI will do the trick. I like AZT2316 and ALS100-based cards for this

Is this one ok?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Avance-Logic-ALS120- … 7oAAOSwaA5Wi2zs

So you suggest 2 sound cards to be installed and one can be my CT3910 for digital sound and avance logic for midi? am I right?

Reply 4 of 23, by dionb

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oguzog wrote on 2021-03-29, 17:05:
[...] Is this one ok? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Avance-Logic-ALS120- … 7oAAOSwaA5Wi2zs […]
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[...]
Is this one ok?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Avance-Logic-ALS120- … 7oAAOSwaA5Wi2zs

So you suggest 2 sound cards to be installed and one can be my CT3910 for digital sound and avance logic for midi? am I right?

If you want to use a card with bad, buggy MIDI, I'd thoroughly recommend a second one for MIDI.

That said, that card is hardly the best option - it's cheap and crap in just about every way. It should probably give you bug-free MIDI, but that's about all it can do. A much better pairing would be with an AZT2316-based card that adds OPL3, SBPro2 and WSS compatibility as well as reliable MIDI. That makes it a perfect match with the CT3990.

Reply 5 of 23, by Tetrium

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System I This machine is going to be the strongest and the most stable Voodoo 2 SLI system. I've checked Phil's guide on this an […]
Show full quote

System I
This machine is going to be the strongest and the most stable Voodoo 2 SLI system. I've checked Phil's guide on this and build a system as follows;

Mobo: GA-6VXE7 Rev3.0
CPU: Pentium III-933
Ram: 512MB
3D GPU: 2x 3DFX Voodoo 2 12MB SLI (using fast voodoo drivers I can see "SLI Detected" w/o any problem).
OS: Win98SE
Audio: YOU SAY grinning face
2D GPU: YOU SAY grinning face (I tried with Matrox G450+ but if you have a better suggestion you're welcome)

GPU Matrox G200 AGP Matrox G450+ Cirrus Logic Vesa Local Bus Matrox Millennium 2MB 3xS3 Virge DX 2xS3 Trio 2xSLI Voodoo 2 3dfx 1 […]
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GPU
Matrox G200 AGP
Matrox G450+
Cirrus Logic Vesa Local Bus
Matrox Millennium 2MB
3xS3 Virge DX
2xS3 Trio
2xSLI Voodoo 2 3dfx 12MB
Diamond Edge 2120 Sega Saturn Edition
3xRadeon 7000 PCI
Asus Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
2xTNT2
FX5200
LEADTEK WinFast A340T
Abit TX600PRO-128
Asus GTS250

I don't know about audio (personally I'd just try something and see how I like it).
For graphics card I'd pick a card which has plentyful performance for its intended tasks, works nice with your OS and intended purpose and doesn't produce a lot of heat.
Something like a GF2MX or perhaps GF4MX. It is just there to display your desktop on your monitor for starting up your Glide games without needlessly heating up the insides of your case (which includes your Voodoo 2 cards), to be easy and compatible with your drivers and your PSU (though the 5v issue is totally not as prominent with s370/Slot 1 as it is compared to sA)
Perhaps even the FX5200 would fit this purpose well enough. Preferably use an AGP card.

For the Tekram P5T30-B4E.
For CPU I'd go for the 200MHz MMX.
64MB RAM.
Graphics I'd pick the most compatible PCI card. Personally I'd try out the S3 Virge cards first. Your choice here is fairly limited though. I have no experience with the Radeon 7000 PCI. If your board had AGP, I'd probably go with the TNT2 (which is not the M64 version I presume? Because those are fairly different and they get mixed up a lot) or the Voodoo 3 (Voodoo 3 would be the pick here I would go for first imho).
Sound card, I'd say try whatever and see what you like.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 6 of 23, by oguzog

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Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-29, 22:39:

If your board had AGP, I'd probably go with the TNT2 (which is not the M64 version I presume? Because those are fairly different and they get mixed up a lot) or the Voodoo 3 (Voodoo 3 would be the pick here I would go for first imho).

I have 2 tnt's. One of them strictly says M64 while the other not. Can you check my photos in the GPU folder?

Reply 7 of 23, by Tetrium

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oguzog wrote on 2021-03-30, 08:12:
Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-29, 22:39:

If your board had AGP, I'd probably go with the TNT2 (which is not the M64 version I presume? Because those are fairly different and they get mixed up a lot) or the Voodoo 3 (Voodoo 3 would be the pick here I would go for first imho).

I have 2 tnt's. One of them strictly says M64 while the other not. Can you check my photos in the GPU folder?

Just to clarify, a TNT2 is not a TNT (TNT is a generation older and performance is roughly similar to a TNT2 M64). TNT2 M64 has a 64 bit memory bus and is basically the 'MX' version of the regular TNT2. Then there is also Vanta.
These are all not the same cards.

What GPU folder? It is usually easy to find out what card you have. You can google the part numbers, but experienced ones will often be able to tell just by looking at it.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 8 of 23, by oguzog

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Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-30, 09:20:

What GPU folder? It is usually easy to find out what card you have. You can google the part numbers, but experienced ones will often be able to tell just by looking at it.

This one

oguzog wrote on 2021-03-29, 11:26:

Let's see my inventory (in case any misidentifying cards, I've uploaded all my cards front and back photos as follows you can also check them)
https://yadi.sk/d/rrUxxd53HbmyZw

Reply 9 of 23, by Tetrium

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oguzog wrote on 2021-03-30, 09:28:
Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-30, 09:20:

What GPU folder? It is usually easy to find out what card you have. You can google the part numbers, but experienced ones will often be able to tell just by looking at it.

This one

oguzog wrote on 2021-03-29, 11:26:

Let's see my inventory (in case any misidentifying cards, I've uploaded all my cards front and back photos as follows you can also check them)
https://yadi.sk/d/rrUxxd53HbmyZw

Oh ok. Didn't see that link. You can upload pics to Vogons directly btw which has the advantage that threads will remain readable for longer due to fewer broken links.

Btw, you should really start googling the part numbers yourself if only because knowing exactly what you have and learning how to figure stuff out yourself are skills which are somewhat prerequisite for building retro rigs. Believe me you don't wanna yolo this.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 10 of 23, by oguzog

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Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-30, 09:33:

Btw, you should really start googling the part numbers yourself if only because knowing exactly what you have and learning how to figure stuff out yourself are skills which are somewhat prerequisite for building retro rigs. Believe me you don't wanna yolo this.

Well actually I do but sometimes deeper information needed. It seems one of my TNT2's are M64 and other one is 16MB Riva TNT-2 Vanta-16 AGP

Reply 11 of 23, by dionb

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oguzog wrote on 2021-03-30, 12:34:
Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-30, 09:33:

Btw, you should really start googling the part numbers yourself if only because knowing exactly what you have and learning how to figure stuff out yourself are skills which are somewhat prerequisite for building retro rigs. Believe me you don't wanna yolo this.

Well actually I do but sometimes deeper information needed. It seems one of my TNT2's are M64 and other one is 16MB Riva TNT-2 Vanta-16 AGP

M64 is 64b relatively high clock, Vanta is 64b low clock. M64 is faster.

But... for DOS it's completely irrelevant. Picture quality is much more important. Good chance that both are going to be bad, this is usually low-end rubbish quality

Reply 12 of 23, by Tetrium

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oguzog wrote on 2021-03-30, 12:34:
Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-30, 09:33:

Btw, you should really start googling the part numbers yourself if only because knowing exactly what you have and learning how to figure stuff out yourself are skills which are somewhat prerequisite for building retro rigs. Believe me you don't wanna yolo this.

Well actually I do but sometimes deeper information needed. It seems one of my TNT2's are M64 and other one is 16MB Riva TNT-2 Vanta-16 AGP

The Vanta-16 is most likely a bit slower than the TNT2 M64. You could compare the Vanta to a slightly underclocked TNT2 M64. Performance and compatibility should be very similar.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 13 of 23, by Tetrium

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Btw, I think the Vanta could actually be a good candidate for your Pentium 3 Voodoo 2 rig. All you want there is a display adapter and the Vanta should suffice while also being relatively cool.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 14 of 23, by kolderman

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At least get 1 CPU that can be slowed down, like a MMX.

Personally I would pair a Via C3 with the Voodoo2, use a MMX for System3. If you really must have a 486...OK but as a third system I would build a high spec Pentium4 for later Win98 games.

GPU to pair with Voodoo2 - I have paired a Savage4 (excellent) and then a Quadro (gf2 gts comparable).

S3 Virge GX/DX for all other DOS games.

If you are to build a faster Win98 P4 machine, the FX5900 is the one.

Reply 15 of 23, by oguzog

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Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-30, 18:55:

Btw, I think the Vanta could actually be a good candidate for your Pentium 3 Voodoo 2 rig. All you want there is a display adapter and the Vanta should suffice while also being relatively cool.

So if we compare Matrox G450+ and Vanta. Should I go with vanta? I will use 98SE only.

Reply 16 of 23, by pentiumspeed

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Matrox is worse on DOS compatibility but good for windows GUI but the Vanta is as good as Matrox as used in windows GUI but weak on 3D due to vanta's memory is 64 bits interface (using 4 or 2 memory chips).

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 17 of 23, by Tetrium

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oguzog wrote on 2021-03-30, 19:03:
Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-30, 18:55:

Btw, I think the Vanta could actually be a good candidate for your Pentium 3 Voodoo 2 rig. All you want there is a display adapter and the Vanta should suffice while also being relatively cool.

So if we compare Matrox G450+ and Vanta. Should I go with vanta? I will use 98SE only.

Vanta is underpowered for a fast Pentium 3 rig, but for your purposes this is irrelevant and you want something that simply works alongside the Voodoo 2 SLI that is supposed to do the gaming here. If you find Vanta to be too slow for basic desktop stuff, then go ahead and use something more recent. But TNT2 M64 and Vanta shouldbe relatively effortless cards with very few issues (except that they are not very fast for being AGP cards).
I never used a Matrox G450+ but I do know it is much more recent. My guess is that Vanta has better compatibility with older games (which in your case would be irrelevant) but it's a relatively slow card (though S3 Virge is probably even slower).

I've used a Vanta (AGP card) alongside a single 12MB Voodoo 2 before in my SS7 rig (K6-III/400) and it was basically effortlessly. It just worked and that I like ^^
And if you end up not liking it, you have plentiful cards available so you can swap cards around if you want to (time consuming but imo it's quite a luxury to be able to have a choice without needing to spend a lot of money in obtaining more parts).

Btw what monitor will you be using for your Pentium 3 rig?

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 18 of 23, by oguzog

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Tetrium wrote on 2021-03-30, 20:16:

Btw what monitor will you be using for your Pentium 3 rig?

I will buy something to cover up all systems (they won't be connect same time, will change the system when I bored). so there will always be an one monitor. Any suggestions?

For temporary usage I have a local brand led monitor 20"

Do you think I need cooler on my vanta and on my cpu?

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Reply 19 of 23, by Tetrium

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My Vanta ran totally fine without a heatsink and is very similar (if not identical) to yours here. These often came without a heatsink and should run fine.

You can put a cooler on there if you want to. There's a fair amount of graphics cards from that era that tended to run fairly hot (with Voodoo 3 being a well known example of this phenomenon) because manufacturers gave their graphics cards relatively skimpy cooling solutions at the time. But the Vanta should still run fine, it probably came without one.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!