VOGONS


First post, by JonnyGators

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Does anyone around here know how to actually troubleshoot motherboard problems?

Like - more than just randomly saying on a forum "you should change some capacitors".

Not to offend anyone - but any idiot anywhere can chime in and say "might be a bad capacitor" in any discussion about any electronic fixing/troubleshooting, and quite frankly, it means absolutely nothing!

To be fair - I understand capacitors are generally terrible and often a culprit. And when restoring 50 year old equipment, or older, going through and changing all capacitors that are of older technology and will likely break down eventually, is not a bad idea.

But when dealing with 20 year old motherboards that have lots of tiny capacitors, it's not a very useful comment, and doesn't really get to the heart of a problem so much as trying to replace something and hope for the best. That's not troubleshooting - that's trying random things and hoping for the best.

So that brings me to the motherboard on the bench today: An ASUS A8N32-SLI. Was my 2nd build, bought it in March of '07, along with a Athlon 64 X2 3800+. Was my main machine until 2013. Then it was used as a secondary machine - had XP on it for a period of time to run some apps that didn't like 7. At some point it started giving me some random problems not wanting to turn on all the time, and just kicked around not doing much. Never really knew where the problems were, never really spent much time troubleshooting it. So about a year ago I decided to play around and see what it could do, and if problems came up I'd deal. And I managed to successfully build it into a open media vault media server. Had it running 24/7 for quite some time. It didn't like booting up properly, even with a new battery it usually loses BIOS settings when unplugged, and often I have to go through the setup a few times to get it to boot to the right HD - but once it booted, ran stable, never a problem hosting the terrabytes of data on the RAID 5 that was in there.

So I decided to get into VR, which required a new build, build #4. This freed up build #3 to become the new media server. Migrated the raid 5 into there, did some configuring, running great. Which is a breath of relief, because relying on a nearly 15 year old computer to host my terrabytes of data was getting scarier. So, that freed up the mobo for tinkering.

So it's back on the table, and.....getting it to boot to install media is failing hardcore! I have 2 power supplies, one that is frequently in use in another build, 2 videocards, one that is confirmed to be working in another machine, so I've ruled those out as culprits. What I find is that frequently I'll turn it on and get no video, or I'll turn it on, and at some point in the process of booting to something, it freezes. Oh - I maxed the thing out with 4 1GB sticks of ram - haven't run RAM tests on it, but the RAM has been sitting in there for years running things, right up to this past weekend when I retired it from being the media server - I figure at least 1 of the sticks has got to be good, and I've tried using only 1 stick at a time, in different slots, went through each of the sticks - so if it's a RAM issue, that would mean all 4 sticks would have to have gone bad in the same way at the same time. Unlikely. But - yeah, I could run a RAM test just to verify the sticks are all good. So that leaves me with mobo and processor.

I'm not sure if the problems trying to boot to an installer and failing are related to the past problems I remember from a few years ago, or if it is a new problem that happened to develop just now. My gut feeling is - it's a problem that effects it's ability to do specific things around startup, that's tempormental, but once something is booted into, it's past the point where the problem is and can operate fine - I would bet that if I put my OMV HD back in here, I could boot to that, and have it continue running with no problem.

Probably not worth much time - but I did want to tinker with it before boxing it up to live in a box for years until someone else throws it away, and figured - maybe this is a chance to see if anyone out there knows more about troubleshooting and zeroing in on a problem with a bad mobo, beyond just randomly saying "have you tried changing capacitors" and driving off.

Last edited by JonnyGators on 2021-03-30, 04:47. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 4, by snufkin

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Not sure if that motherboard has a speaker on it to give BIOS beep codes? You could try fitting one (photos of that model MB show an obvious spot marked buzzer) and seeing if it tells you anything. Is there on board video (I can see an HDMI port)? If you do get video, at what point does it freeze (during memory test, disk detection, loading the OS, ...)? Thermals could be an issue. Some media servers hardly stress the CPU or RAM, so it could have spent 7 years barely being warm, except during booting. Also, strip everything back as much as possible: motherboard, PSU, CPU, one stick of ram, one video adapter, all bios settings to defaults, bootable usb stick with memtest (I'm assuming it boots from usb).

And try changing the capacitors. Or at least have a close look at the aluminium electrolytics (and on the back of the PCB under them). I just got an old Soltek QBic with an SL-B9D-FGR and Athlon64 3000+ Venice running again. That's a socket 939 from around 2005, so only a little earlier than yours. Around 4 out of the 6 capacitors near the CPU had bulged and some had leaked. Only one of them tested ok. My older '99 ABit KA7 was even worse, with one of the power FETs managing to singe the underside of the PCB. Plenty of examples on https://www.badcaps.net/index.php of failed capacitors on stuff a bit newer than 50 years old. Efficient troubleshooting (which I'm not always good at) generally means starting with the common faults first. Like capacitors.

Reply 2 of 4, by Horun

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JonnyGators wrote on 2021-03-29, 20:13:

Does anyone around here know how to actually troubleshoot motherboard problems?

An ASUS A8N32-SLI. Was my 2nd build, bought it in March of '07, along with a Athlon 64 X2 3800+. Was my main machine until 2013. Then it was used as a secondary machine - had XP on it for a period of time to run some apps that didn't like 7. At some point it started giving me some random problems not wanting to turn on all the time, and just kicked around not doing much. Never really knew where the problems were, never really spent much time troubleshooting it. So about a year ago I decided to play around and see what it could do, and if problems came up I'd deal. And I managed to successfully build it into a open media vault media server. Had it running 24/7 for quite some time. It didn't like booting up properly, even with a new battery it usually loses BIOS settings when unplugged, and often I have to go through the setup a few times to get it to boot to the right HD - but once it booted, ran stable, never a problem hosting the terrabytes of data on the RAID 5 that was in there.

haven't run RAM tests on it, but the RAM has been sitting in there for years running things

Many members here do know how to troubleshoot a board, some even at the logic level. For the basics start with these:
First: " It didn't like booting up properly, even with a new battery it usually loses BIOS settings when unplugged" = bad sign of something corroded or failing.
A good board will not loose cmos over a few months with a new battery.
Second:
As snufkin said: speaker on it to give BIOS beep codes? And do not discount bad VRM caps.
Do you have a POST Diagnostic card ? Boot the system with it and record what ever the LEDs tell you.
Why have you not run a memtest ?
After a few years the heatsink goop will dry out, have you pulled the heatsink and cleaned+re-gooped it ?
Corrosion can develop in the memory, PCIe, pci and isa slots or on the cards themselves, have you pulled them and cleaned the edge contacts with ISO alcohol ?
Have you tried booting without any HD connected ? when some fail they can make a system not boot. Are you talking all 2007 era parts ?
Thats my quick take 😀

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 3 of 4, by JonnyGators

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Excellent stuff I will have to hold onto and keep in mind, as I work with more mobos.

After some more fiddling around - I discovered the random freezing issues stop when I disable all onboard devices that I can. I disabled several of these devices when running it as a media server, so that explains why the problems never came up in the time I was using it for that.

I think I have a damaged battery holder - I've tried to adjust things to make contacts touch the battery - but that hasn't seem to have worked. Probably replacing the battery holder would do the trick to get the BIOS to hold it's settings.

I was hoping to install Vista on it (an OS I never used - but the OS of the time of this mobo, so may as well tinker with it) - but it doesn't like to install it from a usb key, and I haven't had much luck getting a clean DVD burn of my image. I have an XP-64 bit disc kicking around, throwing that on for now - and then will try turning on onboard devices one at a time to zero in on the problematic one.

I really don't know what to do with this mobo anymore - but having had it in use for much of the time from 2007 up until now, it's kinda sad to power it down and store it away. I want to find something useful to do with it - but nothing really comes to mind. I'll probably just tinker around until I get board, and then dig up the original box and store it away - with a note of what needs to be disabled in the BIOS to make it work right. At the moment, it kinda falls into an era of not old enough to be interesting, not new enough to be useful for much anymore. Although - it is around the time of the end of ide connections being standard on motherboards, and it has 3 PCI slots, which I remember having to shop around at the time to find something with more than 2.

Reply 4 of 4, by debs3759

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JonnyGators wrote on 2021-03-30, 04:45:

After some more fiddling around - I discovered the random freezing issues stop when I disable all onboard devices that I can. I disabled several of these devices when running it as a media server, so that explains why the problems never came up in the time I was using it for that.

That sounds like it may be a chipset or some other onboard function. Have you tried enabling devices one at a time until you find which is faulty? On my daily driver (FM1 motherboard with A8-3870K APU) the onboard network failed, and I had to disable that in the BIOS and buy a cheap network card (I plan to switch to another system built around a Maximus VIII Hero and i7-6800K soon)

See my graphics card database at www.gpuzoo.com
Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.