VOGONS


First post, by AntiRevisionism

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My ASUS P2B-D based system has two USB 1.1.ports on the motherboard. I'd like to add a 5.25 bay panel with a couple of ports if possible, so I don't always need to go around the back.

For a system of this era, what would the options be? Was the concept of case or panel headers even a thing when USB 1.1 was around? The few USB 1.1 PCI controller cards I could find seem to have nothing for headers.

The machine boots Windows XP, 98 SE and DOS. I'm only concerned about access under XP and 98. Going for a USB 2.0 card seems likely asking for trouble when playing with the 98 side of things based on other posts I've seen.

Reply 2 of 22, by Disruptor

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AntiRevisionism wrote on 2021-03-30, 21:50:

My ASUS P2B-D based system has two USB 1.1.ports on the motherboard. I'd like to add a 5.25 bay panel with a couple of ports if possible, so I don't always need to go around the back.

For a system of this era, what would the options be? Was the concept of case or panel headers even a thing when USB 1.1 was around? The few USB 1.1 PCI controller cards I could find seem to have nothing for headers.

The machine boots Windows XP, 98 SE and DOS. I'm only concerned about access under XP and 98. Going for a USB 2.0 card seems likely asking for trouble when playing with the 98 side of things based on other posts I've seen.

Just consider to check the pinout of your header and your port as there were different standards at this time. Use a multimeter. Check the pinouts in the manuals.
Since I do not know about DOS USB mice drivers, you may have more success with FAT16 formatted (small !) USB sticks in DOS.
ASPIeHCI.sys ASPIoHCI.sys ASPIuHCI.sys and GUEST.EXE are your friends in DOS. I use them for copy purposes only, not in my default CONFIG.SYS submenu.
My experience with USB 2.0 headers show that there is nothing else to worry about connecting it to a USB 1.1 connector.
However, USB 1.1 is really slow. It does take ages to mount a FAT32 formatted USB stick.

Reply 3 of 22, by mothergoose729

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You can find cables that convert the USB headers on your case to USB type A and then route it to the back of your motherboard. I am using them now. Not the most ideal solution but cheap and easy.

Otherwise USB 2.0 addon cards with NEC controllers work well with windows 9x.

Reply 5 of 22, by peg

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Search for "Manhattan front panel" on ebay. It has 2 usb ports, a game port and audio ports as well. I'm currently using it with asus p2b-b.

I'd stay away from uab 2.0 cards entirely. Even the "ones that work" can cause bizarre slowdown issues and other problems, even when not in use. There are several threads around here attributing strange issues down to these cards.

Reply 6 of 22, by Zero_sugar

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If you go with a USB 2.0 card, ALi USB 2.o PCI cards have normal motherboard headers. I've used them on a number of systems and I haven't had any issues. They seems to work just as well as the NEC or VIA cards that I have used.

Reply 7 of 22, by crvs

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Mentioned issues are most probably caused by IRQ sharing. As I remember, USB adapters were not very tolerant to it. Simply check at startup which interrupt has been assigned to ext USB2, and make sure that it differs from other adapters (video, LAN, disk controllers and sound cards). If necessary, toss with PCI slots or force proper IRQ settings in BIOS.

Reply 8 of 22, by Joseph_Joestar

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I would go with simple USB extension cables, if accessing the back of the computer is the primary issue.

If you do decide to use an USB 2.0 card, be warned that they often take up to three separate IRQs. This can make it difficult to install and run any DOS compatible sound card under Win9x.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 9 of 22, by bloodem

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I also wanted my Slot 1 P3 and Slot A Athlon PCs to have a front panel USB connector, but since this is not even close to period correct anyway, I just went with a suitable case: https://www.inter-tech.de/en/products/case/mi … i-tower/it-5905
It has mixed USB3.0/USB2.0 connector cables, and the USB 2 connector can be quickly adapted (trimmed) in order to fit in the USB headers on motherboards from the 1998 - 2000 period.
Some pics of one of my builds with this case can be seen here

2 x PGA132 / 5 x Socket 3 / 9 x Socket 7 / 8 x SS7 / 1 x Socket 8 / 11 x Slot 1 / 3 x Slot A
5 x Socket 370 / 8 x Socket A / 2 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 4 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: Core i7 7700k

Reply 10 of 22, by crvs

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-03-31, 08:42:

I would go with simple USB extension cables, if accessing the back of the computer is the primary issue.

If you do decide to use an USB 2.0 card, be warned that they often take up to three separate IRQs. This can make it difficult to install and run any DOS compatible sound card under Win9x.

I do not think that USB 2.0 adapter can bring conflicts with ISA sound, but some PCI sound cards may be indeed temperamental in such combo, so agree, it's only for real fun seekers 😀

Reply 11 of 22, by Joseph_Joestar

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crvs wrote on 2021-03-31, 11:17:

I do not think that USB 2.0 adapter can bring conflicts with ISA sound

From personal experience, it can.

At one point, I tried to use a VIA-based USB 2.0 card in a system which had an AWE64 Value (CT4520). The USB 2.0 card would take IRQs 3, 5 and 7, and didn't allow me to change that manually in Device Manager. Moving the card to a different PCI slot didn't help either. The AWE64 would not work correctly unless the USB 2.0 card was removed.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 12 of 22, by crvs

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My current USB 2.0 adapter is also VIA-based. Changing IRQ in the device manager doesn't work, have you tried to assign it in BIOS to a proper PCI slot, and fully reinstall Windows driver? It could be also a good idea to check in the MB manual whether same IRQ is shared between several slots (or onboard devices), that is often another cause of the trouble.

Reply 13 of 22, by Joseph_Joestar

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crvs wrote on 2021-03-31, 11:41:

My current USB 2.0 adapter is also VIA-based. Changing IRQ in the device manager doesn't work, have you tried to assign it in BIOS to a proper PCI slot, and fully reinstall Windows driver?

It's been a year or so since I messed around with it, but I remember trying pretty much everything, including assigning the IRQ manually in the BIOS. Nothing helped, so I eventually gave up and simply used the on-board USB 1.1 since that only takes up a single IRQ (which I had set to 4) and doesn't interfere with the AWE64.

Honestly, after copying over everything I needed, even USB 1.1 was good enough for small day-to-day file transfers (save files, patches and drivers). And if my use case changes at some point, and I need to copy large amounts of data to and from that rig, I can always add a network card, since that only takes one IRQ which can be manually assigned.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 14 of 22, by crvs

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Really strange but thank you for information, interesting case, will take note of it for the future.
I'm using USB 2.0 actively in that box, and already swapped ISA sound cards several times, no issues so far but who knows.

Reply 15 of 22, by mothergoose729

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-03-31, 11:24:
crvs wrote on 2021-03-31, 11:17:

I do not think that USB 2.0 adapter can bring conflicts with ISA sound

From personal experience, it can.

At one point, I tried to use a VIA-based USB 2.0 card in a system which had an AWE64 Value (CT4520). The USB 2.0 card would take IRQs 3, 5 and 7, and didn't allow me to change that manually in Device Manager. Moving the card to a different PCI slot didn't help either. The AWE64 would not work correctly unless the USB 2.0 card was removed.

Brutal. 3, 5 and 7 🤣. What were they thinking?

Reply 16 of 22, by douglar

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I have a Gateway E-4200 440BX system and I'd like to set up front panel USB and CF2IDE.

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I purchased a cheap front panel cable:

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I made a quick and dirty CF/USB front panel in tinker cad:

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https://www.tinkercad.com/things/e5ZJt5fJTin- … with-cf-and-usb

According to the manual, this is the front panel usb header:

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I have not found any diagrams that list the pin out for it.

Any suggestions for identifying the USB header pins using a multi-meter?

p.s. the "Manhattan front panel" would match the gateway color scheme very nicely, even if it doesn't have a CF slot.

Reply 17 of 22, by weedeewee

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douglar wrote on 2021-03-31, 17:50:

I have a Gateway E-4200 440BX system and I'd like to set up front panel USB and CF2IDE.
Vintage-Gateway-E-4200-Tower-PC-Pentium-II-350MHz.jpg

440BX... has only 2 usb 1.1 ports... so unless there is a additional seperate USB controller/hub on the board of that machine of yours, you can only use 2 ports, either front or back.
measuring with a multimeter should give some insight, continuity measurement for the GND and 5V pins, and maybe continuity measurement from the back USB ports D- and D+ pads to the pins of the front panel USB connector.
Seems like you should've made a separate thread for this... meh. hope the info helps.

Reply 18 of 22, by PC Hoarder Patrol

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Sorry @douglar, doesn't help with the actual pinout, but @weedeewee is right about a max of 2 ports on these boards so the best you can likely do is relocate one of the rear ports for use with their custom FP USB cable.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090307030316/ht … /M0006131.shtml

Reply 19 of 22, by AntiRevisionism

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-03-31, 08:42:

I would go with simple USB extension cables, if accessing the back of the computer is the primary issue.

I think I may just go with this one. Because I don't have an IO shield yet for the motherboard, I try to avoid mucking around back there.