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386 Mainbord with annoying RAM issue

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First post, by majestyk

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I recently dug out this ancient 386 25 MHz mainboard and was happy someone had removed the battery IN time.
This mainboard must have been available under several brands. It´s identical with Shuttle´s HOT-304, the Magitronic A-B323 and others.

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I cleaned it, checked everything visually, put a CPU and RAM in and gave it a try. It´s starting, complains about "low CMOS" battery", finishes the memory test and - detects exactly 1024 KB, even when there´s 4MB or 8MB put in the banks.
I tried countless sets of memory, 3-chip and 90-chip sticks. I also tried different BIOSes since the board didn´t come with the original BIOS. -> still 1024 KB.

Then I found significant corrosion at one of the three 74F244N Buffers (this one also didn´t get warm, unlike the other 2):

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So I removed it, cleaned everything, put a 20-pin DIL socket in it´s place and a new 74F244N in it. This one gets warm now, like the others, but -> still 1024 KB.

The 8 SIMM sockets are the uncool type where you have to press the sticks vertically down with force. All retentions were broken, the sockets were worn out anyway, so I replaced the 1st four of them with new Amphenol sockets. But, still 1024 KB.

I have checked the backside carefully, measured countless traces that have scratches - everything seems fine there.
So I´m running out of ideas at the moment.

Last edited by majestyk on 2021-04-21, 19:03. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 21, by Deunan

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majestyk wrote on 2021-04-18, 15:41:

1024 MB.

I whish my 386 mobos could host a gigabyte of RAM 😀
On a more serious note though - maybe it's A20 gate issue? Does it boot? Any options for that in BIOS? If not, inspect the chipset pins and the keyboard controller (re-seat if in socket).

Reply 3 of 21, by majestyk

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Thanks, Deunan, I corrected this.
Yes, the board does boot into DOS, I can run the usual tests, all of them reporting 1Mb of memory.
Since KB-controllers can cause weird effects also, I tried several different ones, contacts are o.k.
In the current BIOS there´s no gate A20 option, bot it´s not the original one. I noticed it reports 256K of cache also, which the board definitly does not have.
As soon as I find a fitting EPROM I´ll program the original Shuttle HOT-304 BIOS - to make sure it´s not BIOS related after all.

And I´ll try with a battery today.

Reply 4 of 21, by waterbeesje

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You are Using 3-chip modules. That could be a problem on some 286 boards, so maybe also on this 386? Is there any chance you can test with 8 or 9 chip modules?

Stuck at 10MHz...

Reply 5 of 21, by weedeewee

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waterbeesje wrote on 2021-04-19, 10:54:

You are Using 3-chip modules. That could be a problem on some 286 boards, so maybe also on this 386? Is there any chance you can test with 8 or 9 chip modules?

He says in the first post he already tried with 90 chips modules so, if those don't work either, what makes you think 9 chip modules will work ? 😁 (jk)

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Reply 7 of 21, by weedeewee

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majestyk wrote on 2021-04-19, 11:39:

And those 90-chip modules were huuuuge!
But I did try 4 x 9 = 24, but to no avail.

Though I've got only two, and you need four. Those two modules have 64chips memory chips in total with 6 support chips for a total of 32MB ram in two 30pin simms.
Sadly, I got no board to test'm on, though perhaps, maybe a mac.
at least I think it's 16... could be 4... 😀 can't remember will have to verify the numbers .

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Reply 8 of 21, by waterbeesje

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My bad, overlooked that...

Does the system support 1MB modules at all? I can't imagine it doesn't...
Are there any chances the chip arrangement counts in? There are 1x1000 and 4x256 ones for example. If the chipset / BIOS are picky, could that be it?
Could it be the boards by requires the original BIOS to support more than 1MB?
What happens if you put in 4x 256kB modules?

Stuck at 10MHz...

Reply 9 of 21, by weedeewee

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waterbeesje maybe we should just wait and let'm try with the proper bios first.
Heck it could be as simple as a damaged trace that he hasn't found yet.

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Reply 10 of 21, by majestyk

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The board is now equipped with a battery, sadly this has no effect on the memory detection
I also tried with 4 x 256 KB (3-chip sticks) -> detected correctly as 1024 KB. Then I threw in 8 of those 256 KB sticks -> still being detected as 1024 KB.
It´s probably best to wait for the original BIOS, maybe the "Opti 82C381P" memory controller needs some special register on startup to work properly.

Reply 12 of 21, by weedeewee

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Deksor wrote on 2021-04-19, 16:14:

Could you please dump the original bios for identification ?

Deksor, fyi, it's not the original bios as was mentioned in the first post.

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Reply 14 of 21, by Deksor

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I see, though I am still interested by that bios because we might be able to find what board it's originally made for ^^

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Reply 15 of 21, by majestyk

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Finally this headache seems to be over!
After I could not find any interrupted traces, no loose chipset-pins, just nothing, I measured the DC voltages of the 3 buffer-driver circuits that drive the memory banks. One of them fell out of line, it had VCC (full 5V) on some of it´s outputs and inputs while the other two showed values of 2-3V. So I removed all three of them, soldered some DIL20 sockets in and populated them with brandnew SN74F244N.
All corrosion had now been removed, all 3 circuits replaced, but stll the BIOS gets stuck at 1024 KB.
So it MUST be the BIOS, the board came with...
While waiting for some used Texas Instruments "TMS27C512" EPROMS to arrive, I removed the remaining worn out SIMM sockets. A lot of soldering had to be done.

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Today I finally g0t the EPROMs. After erasing one of them I programmed the original Shuttle HOT-304 BIOS and - surprise - 3968 KB of RAM:

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This old 386 mainboard is now as good as new.

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While many 286 BIOSes are very similar and interchangeble, 386 BIOSes are not necessarily.

Reply 16 of 21, by weedeewee

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majestyk wrote on 2021-04-21, 14:59:

Today I finally g0t the EPROMs. After erasing one of them I programmed the original Shuttle HOT-304 BIOS and - surprise - 3968 KB of RAM:

Congratulations !
Do you have a reliable source for those 30pin simm sockets or just happen to have a large enough stock?

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Reply 17 of 21, by majestyk

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I now have 2 of these sockets left. While 72-pin sockets are still widely available, I´m not aware of any source for the 30-pin sockets at the moment. Do you know any?

Oh, and here´s the unknown BIOS the mainboard came with:

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Reply 18 of 21, by weedeewee

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majestyk wrote on 2021-04-21, 15:57:

I now have 2 of these sockets left. While 72-pin sockets are still widely available, I´m not aware of any source for the 30-pin sockets at the moment. Do you know any?

Oh, and here´s the unknown BIOS the mainboard came with:

unknown386.7z

I've been looking around, haven't bought any yet.
This link seems promising https://www.peconnectors.com/sockets-pga-cpu- … memory/hws5040/ at the risk of someone going in there and buying the whole lot...

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
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Reply 19 of 21, by Deksor

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Thanks for the BIOS upload ! Straight away when opening the ROM in a hex editor I can read "MB-1333PMA-CH, MB-1333PMB-CH, MB-1333PMD-CH, MB-1333PME-CH
MB-1340PMA-CH, MB-1340PMB-CH, MB-1340PMD-CH, MB-1340PME-CH"

The POST string is 30-0201-D61223-00101111-050591-OPWB, 1223 being Biostar's manufacturer code, this suggests this BIOS was originally made for one of these boards https://www.ultimateretro.net/motherboards/1068 https://www.ultimateretro.net/motherboards/1069 https://www.ultimateretro.net/motherboards/1067 (and actually the POST string can be found in the second one I listed)

Doing a checksum on these two matching bioses shows me that they're different somewhere. I don't know what's the difference though (bit rot ? different version ? bad dump ?)

Last edited by Deksor on 2022-03-13, 21:54. Edited 1 time in total.

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