VOGONS


First post, by Odiseo

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This topic is a sort of follow-up to one I published on this forum in 2016. It can be found on the following link: www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=46745.

I picked up a P1 system at someone's place in 2016 and wanted to restore it. The motherboard was identified (see the topic I linked to) as a 5IEM, which you can find details about on the following page: https://th99.bl4ckb0x.de/m/C-D/33825.htm.

After some initial trouble I got the system to POST, but it did complain about an empty CMOS chip. My understanding was that the original RTC on the motherboard was dead, requiring me to replace it. Does an RTC contain a battery? I assumed in 2016 that they do, but I’m not very knowledgeable with regard to old hardware, which is why I ask.

Anyhow, I thought a new Dallas DS1287A chip would help me out, so I bought one on eBay.

I remember that when I removed the original RTC, I bent some of its pins in the process. I supposed no harm was done, as I thought of that RTC as dead anyway. However, when I later turned the system on (without an RTC installed), it wouldn’t POST. No sound, no image, nothing. Is that normal, expected behavior for a system without an RTC?

I was very busy on the job I did back then, so I put the system in a cabinet, forgot about it and didn’t turn it back on for more than 4.5 years.

I had been thinking for some time about finally getting the system to work again. So I got it out today, opened it up and removed several internal devices. Two of those were serial ports which were present when I bought the system and one was a PCI USB card I installed in 2016.

I then inserted the Dallas DS1287A into the socket where the original RTC used to be. I connected the system to a wall outlet, and turned it on. It still won’t POST with this new RTC installed.

Do you think I broke something else when I pulled out the original RTC in 2016? Like inside the RTC socket?

Did I do something wrong when I inserted the “new” RTC (bought in 2016) today?

Is there another likely reason that prevents the system from POSTing? Should I pull out the RAM modules?

The original heatsink and air cooler were glued onto the CPU. I pulled both off in 2016 and then installed a heatsink and air cooler that came with a Spectra 400 CPU upgrade I bought before that time and which worked for a while in another system I used to own.

After the DS1287A didn't get the system to POST today, I removed the Pentium 1 CPU from its socket and replaced it with the Spectra 400. I hoped that would get the system to POST, but, unfortunately, it still doesn’t. I later inserted the Pentium CPU again together with the Spectra's heatsink and cooler.

Image 1
The DS1287A I inserted today.

Image 2
What is the card that says "tmTECH T32M3232A-70"?

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Last edited by Odiseo on 2021-05-15, 20:51. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 32, by weedeewee

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Odiseo wrote on 2021-05-15, 20:38:

Image 2
What is the card that says "tmTECH T32M3232A-70"?

It's a COAST : Cache On A STick module

also, if you still have the old RTC, you might consider modding it... and fixing the bent/broken pins... ymmv.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
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https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 2 of 32, by Deksor

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The RTC you've put looks faked to me. If you rub a Q-tip with some alcohol on it I'm sure you'll start to see the q-tip turn dark and the writings will disappear.

Would you like to take a good photo for our database here please ? http://www.win3x.org/uh19/motherboard/show/1223 (the one on the other thread has a pretty bad looking glare).

Do you still have the original RTC ? Maybe you could try to put it back in there.
Most boards do POST with a RTC with a dead battery in them, only you won't be able to boot off of anything. And most don't when there's no RTC installed, meaning there's something wrong with the RTC (either the fact the RTC is dead or the mod involved).

Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative

Reply 3 of 32, by Odiseo

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weedeewee wrote:

also, if you still have the old RTC, you might consider modding it... and fixing the bent/broken pins... ymmv.

I'm in Belgium too.

I still have the original RTC: it's a Benchmarq bq3287AMT. Some of its pins are slightly bent and I might have even broken off one or two pins in 2016. No idea, too long ago. I have no idea how to fix this type of thing.

Is it the RTC that supplies power to the CMOS chip?

Is the CMOS chip located on the motherboard or is it contained in the RTC?

Reply 4 of 32, by auron

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Deksor wrote on 2021-05-15, 20:59:

The RTC you've put looks faked to me. If you rub a Q-tip with some alcohol on it I'm sure you'll start to see the q-tip turn dark and the writings will disappear.

that could be, but if you read OP's original topic he linked, it seems that the board was already not posting after re-inserting the original RTC. could there be a bad solder joint on the RTC socket?

i think reseating everything (cards, RAM, COASt) is worth a try at least. also leave any IDE or floppy cables off to eliminate those as a factor.

Reply 5 of 32, by Deksor

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The CMOS memory is inside this kind of RTC.

You can hack this kind of RTC to have a external battery instead. It's a bit ugly but it works great

Something you could try would be to use a POST card to troubleshoot the computer and see at which step it hangs

Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative

Reply 6 of 32, by weedeewee

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Odiseo wrote on 2021-05-15, 21:04:

I still have the original RTC: it's a Benchmarq bq3287AMT. Some of its pins are slightly bent and I might have even broken off one or two pins in 2016. No idea, too long ago. I have no idea how to fix this type of thing.

Is it the RTC that supplies power to the CMOS chip?

Is the CMOS chip located on the motherboard or is it contained in the RTC?

FYI, most of the time the pins that have the battery attached are actually bent upwards, so they're not broken off... Unless there's more than 2 missing.
RTC, 'cmos memory' and battery are included in the black box labeled bq3287.... or DS1287..

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 7 of 32, by Odiseo

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Deksor wrote on 2021-05-15, 20:59:

The RTC you've put looks faked to me. If you rub a Q-tip with some alcohol on it I'm sure you'll start to see the q-tip turn dark and the writings will disappear.

Would you like to take a good photo for our database here please ? http://www.win3x.org/uh19/motherboard/show/1223 (the one on the other thread has a pretty bad looking glare).

I put the system back into the cabinet, but I will get it out again tomorrow. I'll try to take the motherboard out of the case and get a good picture. My current phone has a much better camera than the one I had in 2016.

Deksor wrote on 2021-05-15, 20:59:

Do you still have the original RTC ? Maybe you could try to put it back in there.
Most boards do POST with a RTC with a dead battery in them, only you won't be able to boot off of anything. And most don't when there's no RTC installed, meaning there's something wrong with the RTC (either the fact the RTC is dead or the mod involved).

I still have the original RTC: it's a Benchmarq bq3287AMT. Some of its pins are slightly bent and I might have even broken off one or two pins in 2016. No idea, too long ago.

I'll try to insert the bq3287AMT again tomorrow. But I have no idea how to fix this type of thing.

Reply 8 of 32, by Deksor

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The quality of the photo was fine, be careful with the lighting 😁 (don't use your flash and avoid direct light towards the board, diffuse light is better).

Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative

Reply 12 of 32, by Odiseo

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Deksor wrote on 2021-05-15, 22:10:

I don't think so, I think you can get a new one from mouser.

I just visited their website. The range of variety in brand names and model numbers is enormous.

I looked around, but I can't find the RTC (Benchmarq bq3287AMT) that used to be on the board nor the one (Dallas DS1287A) I bought in 2016.

Can you suggest me one (or several) that you know is (are) good?

Reply 13 of 32, by Odiseo

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Deksor wrote on 2021-05-15, 20:59:

The RTC you've put looks faked to me. If you rub a Q-tip with some alcohol on it I'm sure you'll start to see the q-tip turn dark and the writings will disappear.

Dallas DS1287A.jpg: The RTC I bought in 2016. I took the picture after rubbing the top of the chip with some tissue paper with some cleaning alcohol sprayed onto it.

Deksor wrote on 2021-05-15, 20:59:

Would you like to take a good photo for our database here please ? http://www.win3x.org/uh19/motherboard/show/1223 (the one on the other thread has a pretty bad looking glare).

See attachment for pictures of the motherboard. Are these pictures good?

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Reply 14 of 32, by Deksor

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As a replacement you can get the DS12887+ iirc.

The photos are great, thank you 😀

Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative

Reply 15 of 32, by weedeewee

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Deksor wrote on 2021-05-16, 10:24:

As a replacement you can get the DS12887+ iirc.

though apparently that isn't 100% compatible.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 16 of 32, by Deksor

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yeah, but it's the only modern replacement you can find. Otherwise you need to make your own solution (modding the old chip, making your own battery-chip, etc).

Trying to identify old hardware ? Visit The retro web - Project's thread The Retro Web project - a stason.org/TH99 alternative

Reply 17 of 32, by Odiseo

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I put the motherboard back inside the case. I'm about to connect the FP Header cables the way they used to be on the board.

There is one cable (Turbo Switch, the blue/black/white cable) which I don't know which pins it should be connected to.

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Last edited by Odiseo on 2021-05-16, 14:05. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 18 of 32, by Odiseo

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I forgot to take note how these 2 6-pin ATX cables were connected. Which cable goes on the top connector? And which one on the other?

EDIT. According to what I read during some research, the black wires should be in the center. Is that correct?

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