VOGONS


First post, by AndrewBSSC4

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Hi All,

I'm getting back to trying to repair this Commodore PC-10 III. I've put it aside way too often and have to get it fixed. But I'm kind of stuck as to where to go next and need some suggestions.

Recap ( <- HA!) of the situation and what I've done so far:
- Got the system and before a power on inspected and removed the leaking battery and cleaned the board. No evidence of bad traces and all pinged out fine. Made the mistake though of NOT testing for shorts.
- Powered it on but no life. Just some ceramic caps went snap-crackle-pop before my eyes.
- Replaced those caps and thought I had a short but after consultations with people here the behavior was normal.
- Tried another power on but still nothing. BUT the screen was getting a signal. Both through the DB-9 and Composite on the board.
- At this point I suspected a bad BIOS. My programmer was acting flaky so I had to order a new one and in the mean time as a fluke I figured I'd try and pop in a Compaq BIOS. That worked. I got video and an error code. So I was pretty sure the system board and video are fine now, and it was a bad BIOS.
- While waiting for my new programmer I started to take a closer look at the error. The Compaq error was divided in two with 4 characters at the front and a 201 code at the end. The 201 is usually indicating a memory error. At first I though the first characters were gibberish since no Compaq error matched.
- But I now figured out the first four characters are the code used by Commodore to identify the location of the bad chip on the board. I figure this out by looking at the Diagnostics user hand book online. The only issue is the error code is supposed to be much longer, with those 4 characters only being the end and additional error code from Commodore at the beginning.
- Using the "piggy-back" method to try and identify the bad chips I was actually able to figure out which chips might be bad. The other problem though is the handbook online is for the earlier PC-10 I and II. Where on those boards the first 256K or so are on the board and the rest are on a daughter card. So that's where I ran into the problem where after identifying 4-5 chips the error codes started to no longer make sense and point to chips that were previous good. So I'm thinking that probably the information in the first part of the code that I can't see might have the missing information I need.
- After I got my new programmer I did program some different versions of the Commodore BIOS and all acted the same. I was even lucky and found someone on Ebay selling an original BIOS chip and bought it thinking maybe I was doing something wrong programming the chips or the BINs were bad. But same thing.

So that's where I am. I welcome any input anyone might have. A few additional things:
- Does anyone know of a copy of that Commodore Diagnostics handbook that includes the information for the PC-10 III?
- I do notice that the CPU and FDD controller do get warmer with the original Commodore BIOS than with the Compaq BIOS. So I suspect the Commodore BIOS must be in some sort of loop continuing to execute something while the Compaq BIOS has stopped when it found the bad memory. Connecting a FDD changes nothing. So it's not seeking or waiting on the drive.
- Anyone have any experience with these Commodore BIOS? Someone might know why it's acting like it is? Could there be a specific component that's bad that freaking out the Commodore BIOS?

Right now the only next step I have left is to remove all the memory, socket it all, and replace it. But that's a lot of work and drastic if I could figure out why the BIOS is acting like it is. And may lead to more damage. And may just fix the first problem, I really would like to figure out why the BIOS is acting like is and get the full error codes.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Reply 3 of 6, by Deunan

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I didn't dig for very long but I can't find datasheets for these - other than LM33256G being 256kx1 and M41464 being 256kx4. Which also matches the number of chips you have - this system has 512k RAM total, correct?

Reason I asked is the older tech DRAMs needed +12V and sometimes also -5V in addition to standard 5V, and it is pretty important that all 3 voltages are present. Sometimes even critical, because even a brief failure will damage the chips, so power on/off events were carefully sequenced to prevent that. See if your DRAMs also get +12V or -5V or both, if they do it's quite likely at least some are bad now.

Reply 4 of 6, by AndrewBSSC4

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Thanks. I have no doubt that there are quite a few bad memory chips and at this point, unless I can figure out what's wrong with the BIOS, I'll have no choice but remove and replace them all.

My big thing is trying to figure out what's going on with the system and why the board is not posting with the original Commodore BIOS but seems to post with the Compaq BIOS.

Reply 5 of 6, by Deunan

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Chances are the original BIOS memory test is not as robust and misses some clues, then proceeds to use some RAM for stack or something. And then it obviously fails. While it's going to be a lot of work, and there's always the risk of some trace/via damage that has to be repaired as well, I think socketing those RAMs would be a good idea anyway. Plus then it's possible to try more things, like swapping them around or with good parts, and also testing them in dedicated tester.

Reply 6 of 6, by AndrewBSSC4

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Hi All,

Thought I'd fire off an update to this repair since I've picked it back up again. So I couldn't find any other BIOS that would display any sort of output other than the Compaq one. So I resorted to trying the Supersoft/Landmark Diagnostics BIOS and it worked. It confirmed that there was a memory error in the first 16KB. But it was not precise as to identify the exact chips. So I had no choice but to start pulling, socketing, testing, and replacing memory chips.

Well of the first 8 chips, 7 were bad. So these Sanyo LM33256G are not looking too strong. After replacing them the machine finally posted with the original Commodore BIOS for the first time. It's displaying only 256KB but this would be what I replaced. So I'm pretty sure the rest of the chips will be dead. So I'm getting my desoldering and socketing exercise in. Time to do the next 8.

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