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First post, by geiger9

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I want to buy one and there a few on eBay right now but I'm not sure if I should buy one of those or wait for another. I want Tandy sound and graphics so that rules out the RLX and RSX. I'm reading that the Tandy PSSJ sound chip is not very good either so that rules out some more models so I think I've narrowed it down to the SX, TX, EX, HX models. Then again the EX and HX have built in keyboards that I don't like so maybe I am down to the SX and TX. Can anyone chime in with their experience please? I am looking mainly to play the Sierra quest series and other big popular games of that time.

Also, is Tandy Graphics really worth having? Is it THAT different that VGA? It must be possible to connect a 1000 up to a VGA monitor through some kind of adapter, right? Will it still output Tandy Graphics?

Reply 1 of 12, by Jorpho

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geiger9 wrote on 2021-05-26, 19:39:

Also, is Tandy Graphics really worth having? Is it THAT different that VGA?

It's completely different from VGA? I don't know what would lead you to conclude otherwise.

If you demand original hardware then you are free to do so, but if you aren't sure what the difference is and want to see for yourself before investing time and money, I think ScummVM ought to support the Tandy graphics for the Sierra games – or there's PCem or DOSBox. (Perhaps you are not aware of these alternatives; not everyone is.)

Reply 2 of 12, by jasa1063

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Jorpho wrote on 2021-05-26, 20:02:
geiger9 wrote on 2021-05-26, 19:39:

Also, is Tandy Graphics really worth having? Is it THAT different that VGA?

It's completely different from VGA? I don't know what would lead you to conclude otherwise.

If you demand original hardware then you are free to do so, but if you aren't sure what the difference is and want to see for yourself before investing time and money, I think ScummVM ought to support the Tandy graphics for the Sierra games – or there's PCem or DOSBox. (Perhaps you are not aware of these alternatives; not everyone is.)

For maximum compatibility go with a Tandy 1000 SX. It can run at either the slower 4.77MHz and the higher speed 7.16MHz. You can install a NEC V20 CPU for a performance boost that should not affect the games your are trying run. If all out performance is what you are after, go with the Tandy 1000 TX. The Tandy 1000 graphics were derived from the ill fated IBM PCjr and was widely supported in vintage 1980s games, I believe over 800 in all. It's basically an enhanced version of CGA that supports 16 colors at 320x200 resolution. VGA puts a higher demand on the computer that not even the Tandy 1000 TX may be able to handle. A Tandy 1000 should be good for most games up through about 1987-88. I hope this info will help you out.

Reply 3 of 12, by geiger9

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Thanks jasa1063, this is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for! Hopefully I get a few more insights like this.

Also, Jorpho that is a great suggestion with emulation. It's been a long long time since I fooled with DOSbox and I have never tried ScummVm.

Reply 4 of 12, by jasa1063

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geiger9 wrote on 2021-05-26, 20:59:

Thanks jasa1063, this is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for! Hopefully I get a few more insights like this.

Also, Jorpho that is a great suggestion with emulation. It's been a long long time since I fooled with DOSbox and I have never tried ScummVm.

I own 5 Tandy 1000's and if you want the authentic experience there is no other way to go. If you just want to run older games and don't care about that, emulation is good option. You can even take the route of running classic games from a website. Most use DOSBox on the backend. Archive.org has over 2500 classic DOS games you can run from your web browser.

https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games

RGB Classic Games is another.

https://www.classicdosgames.com/

Reply 5 of 12, by Caluser2000

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The good folk over at vcfed will give you heaps of info about Tandy 1000s.

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Reply 6 of 12, by creepingnet

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I don't know what you are really totally looking for in these so I'll throw my .02 up here with a wall of text per usual....

I've owned 3 Tandy 1000's, an SX, an EX, and the 1000A I'm still currently using.

The 1000 SX and EX are basically the same machine except the EX is all-in-one. Both are 6MHz 8088's that can run at 4.77MHz if one of the first four function keys are pressed at startup. The SX often comes with dual floppies. Both top out at 640K RAM.

The EX has 3 plus slots, which are ISA compatible but you need some kind of adapter to use regular desktop boards in them (I've seen independant builders making cards for these). Most common config I see these come with is some kind of very old internal modem and a 640K upgrade card. They only allow for one Floppy Drive (1x 360K DSDD 5.25", usually TEAC branded). The power cable is hard wired, and the keyboard is basically the same as the regular 85 key Tandy keyboard. One nice thing about the EX is the volume knob is outside the case.

The SX has 5 ISA Expansion slots. Memory can be upgraded to 640K from 384K base model RAM using eight 40256 SDRAM chips (details fuzzy, I'd double check). Most should already be 640K though. The 1000 SX has the volume control for the speaker inside the case so kind of a pain if you find it too quiet or too loud. Usually the SX came with 2 360K DSDD TEAC Floppy drives with white faces.

I'll throw the 1000A out there for ya as well since that's what I currently have. The 1000A is the revised version of the first release. It's much the same as the SX except you only have 3 ISA slots, a much smaller case, RAM upgrade from 640K comes in the form of an expansion card leaving two slots. These had 2 360K TEAC Floppies with black faces and a black power switch on the right rear. I'm quite digging mine despite it being a 4.77MHz machine. Funning Sierra AGI games in "Fast" will produce comfortable gameplay speed in things like Kings Quest and Leisure Suit Larry. Thdexter and Silkworm also run great on it. Mine has a 640K upgrade in it, with the other two ISA cards being a Realtek RTL8019 network card for using mTCP/FTPSRV on it so I can move files to it over the network and get on the Internet (the Tandy 1000 series is GREAT for BBS surfing over Telnet), and an XT-IDE card with a 3GB Seagate HDD on it.

The Tandy 1000 series have TRS-80 gameport jacks on the front which worth with both analog joysticks, and the Tandy Color Mouse and Deluxe Mouse. I actually have the latter. Just a word of note - if you manage to find one of these mice, they don't work like normal mice. They need drivers from as they actually behave like a one or two button joystick respectively, with the ball being replacement for the stick - so the movement ends after a certain point - you'll feel it and hear it a little as the ball sticks against the roller that refuses to move any further.

General Graphics stuff - The Tandy 1000 machines I've owned all had a "TV Mode" used by composite by holding F12 while starting up - though I think the EX/SX had it on "F4" instead. If you load the Tandy without pressing this, the Composite port goes to high resolution monochrome mode and looks really crisp but you won't have any color. "TV Mode" puts it into 40 column Composite mode with the whole "fringing/holoflash" thing going on with the text that gets you extra colors in CGA Composite mode - so that's a real benefit for games, but a bit stinky if you want to run it like a COnsole and have to do things through DOS on a TV set. On the 4.77 MHz models and even the 6MHz models you will feel it lag a little in 320x200 16 mode speed-wise because that's about as much as this machine can handle - it is, after all, an XT-Class PC with an 8088.

Sound-wise. It uses the Texas Instruments SN76489 sound chip which produces 3 channels of square wave audio, using the actual PIT-based internal speaker (regular PC speaker) for a fourth channel in some software. Sound is somewhere in the ballpark of an 8-bit NES or an MSX computer from Japan. Honestly, I wish I knew how to program - I'd be porting the old NES Dragon Quest games to it!

Maybe I'll post pictures later of the glory of the Tandy's video modes since my 1000A is running into my TV and an NEC MultiSync II color monitor at the same time right now in my closet.

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Reply 7 of 12, by geiger9

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rlcPjR2.png
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So I fired up DOSBox tonight and tried out EGA vs Tandy graphics. Looks to me to be the same. I'm confused. KQ4 says right on the box that it supports Tandy Graphics. Perhaps that just means that this game will look the same with Tandy Graphics or EGA or VGA?

When I switched to Tandy mode, I set the machine line in the DOSBox config to Tandy then I went and ran the KQ4 install and set that to Tandy Graphics. I could have swore KQ4 was one of those games specifically programmed for Tandy Graphics.

Also wow creepingnet thank you so much for all that!

Reply 8 of 12, by jasa1063

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geiger9 wrote on 2021-05-27, 01:28:
https://i.imgur.com/rlcPjR2.png https://i.imgur.com/A4QnKLA.png […]
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rlcPjR2.png
A4QnKLA.png

So I fired up DOSBox tonight and tried out EGA vs Tandy graphics. Looks to me to be the same. I'm confused. KQ4 says right on the box that it supports Tandy Graphics. Perhaps that just means that this game will look the same with Tandy Graphics or EGA or VGA?

When I switched to Tandy mode, I set the machine line in the DOSBox config to Tandy then I went and ran the KQ4 install and set that to Tandy Graphics. I could have swore KQ4 was one of those games specifically programmed for Tandy Graphics.

Also wow creepingnet thank you so much for all that!

Sierra games were originally written for the IBM PCjr. They were later updated for the Tandy 1000. Most EGA games during that era used 320x200x16 color graphics that the Tandy 1000 also supported. Not many went for the higher res 640x350x16 color graphics. That being the case they should both look about the same.

Reply 9 of 12, by Horun

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If you buy a Tandy 1000 go search for a good VGA card that can work in a 8bit slot (so you can use any VGA older monitor) unless you already have a CGA or EGA monitor. All XT can run a simple VGA card just as easy as EGA.
Just my opinion and limited knowledge ;P

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Reply 10 of 12, by Jo22

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Sierra AGI titles are really low-res, they don't even make full use of 4 colour CGA (resolution wise).

The games itself use 160×200, but the interpreters on PC use 320x200 video.

https://spacequest.fandom.com/wiki/AGI

For comparison, the original Gamrboy had a 160×144 display ..

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Reply 11 of 12, by jheronimus

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geiger9 wrote on 2021-05-26, 19:39:

I want to buy one and there a few on eBay right now but I'm not sure if I should buy one of those or wait for another. I want Tandy sound and graphics so that rules out the RLX and RSX. I'm reading that the Tandy PSSJ sound chip is not very good either so that rules out some more models so I think I've narrowed it down to the SX, TX, EX, HX models. Then again the EX and HX have built in keyboards that I don't like so maybe I am down to the SX and TX. Can anyone chime in with their experience please? I am looking mainly to play the Sierra quest series and other big popular games of that time.

Well, like others said, SX is the most expandable, but you are limited to NEC V20. Then again, TX (and most if not all other 286 Tandy 1000s) use 286 on an 8-bit ISA bus, so I don't think it even matches the original IBM AT in performance. There aren't a whole lot of games that should benefit from a 286 Tandy.

However, do keep in mind that upgrading a Tandy is only possible with buying a very rare Tandy-branded 286 accelerator card. Other cards (equally rare) will not work as I've learned the hard way. My Mountain Racecard 286 did not work — even though it was made by the same company as the Tandy card.

geiger9 wrote on 2021-05-26, 19:39:

Also, is Tandy Graphics really worth having? Is it THAT different that VGA? It must be possible to connect a 1000 up to a VGA monitor through some kind of adapter, right? Will it still output Tandy Graphics?

Keep in mind that you can't just install a VGA card and retain compatibility with Tandy graphics. There are MCE2VGA (from Serdaco, etc) adapters that should allow connecting Tandy to regular VGA screens.

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Reply 12 of 12, by creepingnet

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AGI games like LSL and Kings Quest use the 160x200 resolution inherent to the PC Jr and Tandy 1000, but they will look the same all the way up to a current PC. Later games using the SCI 16-color graphics like LSL 2&3, and King's Quest III/IV, or Hoyle Card Games, uses the higher 320x200 resolution. I think the 640x350 was never used because that would really tax the resources of an 8088 based XT-class PC or even some 286-based machines - that would have been better off for things like Deskmate or Windows - or something 16Mhz 286 or faster.

I think the real appeal to the Tandy systems is the sound and graphics, and the recognized brand. It's really a catch 22 and a matter of perspective. There have been times I've considered paring down my collection and instead using my GEM Computer Products 286 with a Tandy 3-Voice Card instead, using the Turbo Switch for XT-Class stuff. What keeps me from doing that though is I love the whole aesthetic and feel of using a real Tandy 1000 - a lotta "micros" for the "macro" of running the games on actual hardware.

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