VOGONS


First post, by antillies

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Hi,

I am running into an issue with my Windows 98 and XP build that I could use some input on.

A few months ago I noticed that after a while of playing some games the system would freeze and emit a continuous tone from the speakers. I suspected it was perhaps the motherboard that was dying and decided to replace it. However, the issue persisted. This time, though, the system didn't freeze but crashed, displaying the below blue screen.

rdrKQm1m.jpg

I assume at this point it's either the CPU or the RAM. Would anyone have input as to which is more likely to be the issue? I'm prepared to replace either but am hoping I can narrow it down before doing so.

Specs are:
Motherboard: ASUS P4P800 Deluxe with Socket 478
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3.4GHz
Memory: 4x 512 MB Kingston HyperX PC3200

Thanks very much.

Reply 2 of 35, by mothergoose729

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CPU failure is exceedingly rare. A lot of times these are software/configuration issues. Seeing as how you are having problems in two OS though I would say we can rule that out for now.

In order of what is most likely

Memory
Mainboard
Power supply
Graphics Card
CPU

In order of what is easiest to test

Memory (use memtest)
CPU (CPU stress test)
Graphics (GPU stress test)
PSU (Combined stress test, monitor behavior, not exact science)
Mainboard (hard to test without replacing it).

Should note that windows 98 does not function well with more than 512mb of memory. If you haven't already, you will want to install the rob lowe windows 98 memory patch.

Reply 3 of 35, by Doornkaat

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-06-30, 20:31:

Should note that windows 98 does not function well with more than 512mb of memory. If you haven't already, you will want to install the rob lowe windows 98 memory patch.

Rudolph Loew.
We owe him this accuracy.👍

Reply 4 of 35, by mothergoose729

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Doornkaat wrote on 2021-06-30, 20:53:
mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-06-30, 20:31:

Should note that windows 98 does not function well with more than 512mb of memory. If you haven't already, you will want to install the rob lowe windows 98 memory patch.

Rudolph Loew.
We owe him this accuracy.👍

Yes, my mistake 🤣

Reply 5 of 35, by Caluser2000

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If the patch doesn't work run up a small live linux distro. The BunsenLabs minimal live 32-bit CD should do ok. It more accurately tell you what is wrong if it halts on start up.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 6 of 35, by antillies

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All, I apologize for my delay in response. I thought I had e-mail notifications set up to alert me when someone responded but it looks like I did not.

Doornkaat wrote on 2021-06-30, 19:34:

Try Memtest x86. It'll find memory errors. If it crashes it's more likely the CPU than RAM.
Also given the age of the motherboard is Vcore stable in BIOS?

I did not know about Memtest so I will certainly try that as soon as I get home. Regarding your question (and I apologize if this is a dumb follow up), I assume that I would just check the value in BIOS and see if there are any fluctuations while watching it?

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-06-30, 20:31:
CPU failure is exceedingly rare. A lot of times these are software/configuration issues. Seeing as how you are having problems i […]
Show full quote

CPU failure is exceedingly rare. A lot of times these are software/configuration issues. Seeing as how you are having problems in two OS though I would say we can rule that out for now.

In order of what is most likely

Memory
Mainboard
Power supply
Graphics Card
CPU

In order of what is easiest to test

Memory (use memtest)
CPU (CPU stress test)
Graphics (GPU stress test)
PSU (Combined stress test, monitor behavior, not exact science)
Mainboard (hard to test without replacing it).

Should note that windows 98 does not function well with more than 512mb of memory. If you haven't already, you will want to install the rob lowe windows 98 memory patch.

Mothergoose, I appreciate your helpful input once again on another of my threads. I really appreciate the detailed breakdown. Your first step concurs with what Doornkaat suggested so I will try using Memtest first.

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-06-30, 20:31:

Should note that windows 98 does not function well with more than 512mb of memory. If you haven't already, you will want to install the rob lowe windows 98 memory patch.

I do have the HimemX patch applied, and have never had any issues on the W98 side of things (as far as I can tell). Do you think I should install Loew's patch on top of or in lieu of HimemX?

Reply 7 of 35, by mothergoose729

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Memtest will tell you very quickly if memory is the problem. You can burn a bootable CD with it or boot from a USB drive. Do that first.

I always preferred to limit myself to 512mb of memory with windows 98 and avoid the patches. Modifying configuration files and using himemx is something I have used to get windows 98 through installation, but then afterwards I would install the Rudolph Loew patch and that is what I recommend if you are going to do that.

Reply 8 of 35, by Horun

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Have never seen that exact error from either Win98 or WinXP.
Which OS gave you that error ?

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 9 of 35, by pentiumspeed

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Typically if the windows blue screens few seconds after start up, usually is faulty memory module related. Do the memtest 86+

What I would do is pull all memory modules the but one module in row one and try. If persists, swap module and try again, chances if you have two modules, you will know which is faulty. If 3 or more memory, you have to keep trying.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 10 of 35, by chrismeyer6

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If your going to monitor system voltages don't rely on the bios or software tools. The hardware monitor chips are crazy inaccurate use a voltmeter and monitor the voltages that way. The easiest route is to put the test leads In a unused molex connector.

Another thought have you checked to make sure your bios battery is still good I've had quite a few systems that really act strangely when the bios battery is missing/low/dead.

Reply 12 of 35, by Doornkaat

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antillies wrote on 2021-07-06, 21:27:

Regarding your question (and I apologize if this is a dumb follow up), I assume that I would just check the value in BIOS and see if there are any fluctuations while watching it?

Exactly! Often if the VRM capacitors on those older boards start to fail you will see the reading jump around a lot. Changes of >0.05V will often indicate VRM problems.

Reply 13 of 35, by antillies

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I've now run stress tests on the RAM and the CPU. Both passed (see images below, and apologies for phone quality).

Prime95
I ran Prime 95 for over an hour and all tested passes succeeded.
dvx5ezml.jpg

Memtest86
F4N0AoHl.png

GPU
I've run 3DMark2001 to benchmark my GPU's before and haven't run into any issues. I should also note that I've swapped GPU's and the issue persists between them. Is there anything else worth testing on the GPU front? Happy to try another tool if anyone thinks that's advisable.


Doornkaat wrote on 2021-07-07, 13:05:

Exactly! Often if the VRM capacitors on those older boards start to fail you will see the reading jump around a lot. Changes of >0.05V will often indicate VRM problems.

According to the BIOS, there's an occasional fluctuation. When I was watching it, it was going from 1.536V to 1.552V. There were also occasional fluctuations in the 3.3, 5, and 12V readings.

Warlord wrote on 2021-07-07, 03:23:

Could also be a bad pci card like a bad sound card on the pci bus.

Would you mind expanding on that? My sound card has definitely stayed the same throughout all of this, even when I swapped boards. How would I test it?

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-06-30, 20:31:

PSU (Combined stress test, monitor behavior, not exact science)
Mainboard (hard to test without replacing it).

@mothergoose: Seems like I'm on the PSU step now, though I bought it new at the time of the build (about a year ago). Would you mind giving me some direction as to how to test it?

Reply 14 of 35, by Caluser2000

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Did you try this?

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-30, 21:04:

If the patch doesn't work run up a small live linux distro. The BunsenLabs minimal live 32-bit CD should do ok. It more accurately tell you what is wrong if it halts on start up.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 16 of 35, by antillies

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I did some more investigating last night and I have this weird suspicion it is the sound card that is causing these issues. Besides the screeching that I heard when the system would freeze on the original motherboard, I played around last night with taking the card out and replacing it. While in, I was still experiencing freezes, both on boot-up, while on the desktop, and in-game. When I removed the card, however, things seemed to run completely smooth.

I know Warlord had mentioned it might be the sound card, but would anyone have suggestions on how to find definitive evidence of the card going bad? Is there anything I can test it with?

Reply 17 of 35, by Caluser2000

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If you removed the card and everything was ok it was definitely the card causing issues I'd imagine..

Well at least in MS Windows.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 18 of 35, by antillies

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-08-10, 22:11:

If you removed the card and everything was ok it was definitely the card causing issues I'd imagine..

Turns out you weren't wrong, and @Warlord's suspicions were also correct. I switched out the old audio card (Audigy 2 ZS) with a newly purchased one (also Audigy 2 ZS, but it seems like a different model, as it differs in appearance) and things are running smoothly again. No issues booting, no crashes on the desktop, and I tested it on two games that I had been playing that were giving me issues (Star Wars Battlefront [the original] and Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast).

I guess I'm curious what caused the original to fail. I suppose it could have just been at the end of its life, but I also wonder, since I had been running my 6200 prior to the issues, if the heat from the GPU caused or accelerated the card's decline? If anyone would have a postulation, wouldn't mind hearing.

Regardless, thank you to everyone who responded and provided help, guidance, and feedback. This was a learning experience, above anything, and hopefully what you all have taught me will come in handy in the future if my build runs into any further issues. Thank you again.

Last edited by antillies on 2021-08-15, 18:27. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 19 of 35, by AlexZ

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Maybe the old Audigy 2 ZS needs capacitor replacement. Perhaps in certain situations it goes crazy and starts sending rubbish on PCI causing the crash. I would keep the new in one for some time to observe if there are any crashes and if everything seems ok switch back to original one to confirm its definitely the old card causing issues.

Pentium III 900E, ECS P6BXT-A+, 384MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 128MB, Voodoo 2 12MB, 80GB HDD, Yamaha SM718 ISA, 19" AOC 9GlrA
Athlon 64 3400+, MSI K8T Neo V, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT 512MB, 250GB HDD, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS