Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-02, 02:16:

If I used VM software to run Red Hat Linux 6.2, OS/2 v4 and a Dos session in XP Pro on a P4 2.4GHz machine with 512megs of ram surely anything faster than that speed should with ease.

I forgot to mention they were all running at the same time as well...😉

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-02, 01:53:

lolo799 wrote on 2021-07-01, 19:38:

The kind of cards you think of for personal systems did exist for a few PowerMac in NuBus or PCI format, Sun workstations had PCI addons cards too with emulated storage iirc and in some measure for the Acorn RiscPC (only as a 486 or 5x86 CPU add-on card, audio and video were emulated).

I have a different kind of card for PC but it's like having a complete PC in your machine with its own inputs and outputs, including a 2.5" IDE hdd.

You could give really old versions of VirtualPC or VMware a try.

No. RiscPC x86 co-processor cards use the actual hardware of the RiscPC mobo for video and sound output. As well as keyboard and mouse input.

You're right, my mistake.
Didn't the last version of the !PC software (or whatever its name was) provide SB16 compatibility?
Surely that's not a native feature on the RiscPC mobo, no?
And if I remember correctly, there was a video driver for win3.x and maybe 9x that used the Arm cpu in some way...

lolo799 wrote on 2021-07-02, 09:26:

You're right, my mistake. Didn't the last version of the !PC software (or whatever its name was) provide SB16 compatibility? Sur […]
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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-02, 01:53:

lolo799 wrote on 2021-07-01, 19:38:

The kind of cards you think of for personal systems did exist for a few PowerMac in NuBus or PCI format, Sun workstations had PCI addons cards too with emulated storage iirc and in some measure for the Acorn RiscPC (only as a 486 or 5x86 CPU add-on card, audio and video were emulated).

I have a different kind of card for PC but it's like having a complete PC in your machine with its own inputs and outputs, including a 2.5" IDE hdd.

You could give really old versions of VirtualPC or VMware a try.

No. RiscPC x86 co-processor cards use the actual hardware of the RiscPC mobo for video and sound output. As well as keyboard and mouse input.

You're right, my mistake.
Didn't the last version of the !PC software (or whatever its name was) provide SB16 compatibility?
Surely that's not a native feature on the RiscPC mobo, no?
And if I remember correctly, there was a video driver for win3.x and maybe 9x that used the Arm cpu in some way...

On the eary RiscPC mobos you had to add a SB module. The later ones had it built into the mobo itself. There were drivers for the mouse and optical drives just like there is in native Dos. I''ll run up the PiscPC I I'm testing/playing with and take some pics.

The PC x86 software also gives you the option of running the com and lpt ports true the RiscOS or directly to the posts.

darry wrote on 2021-07-02, 02:07:

If I may interject, the OP's 13 year-old Intel Core2 Quad, while still perfectly adequate for many modern tasks, has single thre […]
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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-07-02, 01:41:

What speed of hardware do you need for PCEM to be fast enough for what you want to do?

If I may interject, the OP's 13 year-old Intel Core2 Quad, while still perfectly adequate for many modern tasks, has single thread performance that is less than half of a current generation 100 US$ Core I3 CPU according to Passmark
( https://www.cpubenchmark.net/ ). This may not be a reflection of performance under PCEM, but it does give an idea of how far things have come even in this relative stagnant era of CPU IPC progress. This is, of course, assuming that the OP has one of the fastest Core2 Quad CPUs (Qx9650/Q9650/adapted Xeon E5450) .

Admittedly, upgrading to a current generation CPU is more expensive than just the CPU, but it does have fringe benefits as well (a faster PC for day-to-day use).

Of course, I can't say whether this would actually be fast enough for OP's needs .

Intel Core2 Quad Q9650 @ 3.00GHz --> Single Thread Rating: 1288
Intel Core i3-10100F --> Single Thread Rating: 2609
EDIT2 : Intel Core i3-7100 --> Single Thread Rating: 2325

EDIT : Corrected typo

EDIT2 : In post Re: Im making a frontend/manager for win9x games , OP mentions having tried and i3 7100 and having found that it performed at Pentium 75 levels, so an Intel Core i3-10100F would not be much better

Yes, I've had an i3 7100 in the past, but I live in Brazil, and around here things are very, very expensive, and I live from buying and selling things over the internet. Around here, the dollar is worth 5x more than my currency, and the average salary (and quality of life) is much lower than the American one, a 7th generation intel computer would cost me 3 or 4 months of work (that is, if I let to buy food and pay the bills, to use all the money just for the new pc)

My core2quad is a q9300, and it has some mediocre performance even at Dx2 66mhz on pcem even my motherboard using 6gb ddr3 1066mhz.

I need a pentium 1 between 100 and 166mhz for test subject. I have an old pentium 1 cpu, AT, for testing, but as I said earlier, things would be easier if I could do it with some kind of kvm, or virtualization hardware.

edit: before you ask how I can get money to buy retro hardware, I have access to a junkyard that usually has a lot of computer stuff, there I can buy anything for a very low price, and if the thing needs repairs, I fix it myself

Well that sucks. Not sure why you're getting a max of DX2-66 on that though, machines I have that max out around there for emulation are an Atom N270 and a Celeron Mobile 1.6 (Dothan). My T7200 (C2D 2Ghz) manages up to about Pentium 200, maybe more, I haven't been emulating anything that needs more than about a P-166.

I don't know if you've heard about putting socket 771 Xeons in quad 775 boards, but that might get you a bit of a speed bump for cheap, they sell for under $20 USD and with the cache are equivalent to Extreme Edition Core2 Quads. Details.. https://www.delidded.com/category/mods/

Did you see the PM I sent you? Guessing shipping would cost too much?

And for the mods... No, I am not selling anything. Just trying to help out a fellow computer nerd.

Rikintosh wrote on 2021-07-02, 00:52:

lolo799 wrote on 2021-07-01, 21:58:

Rikintosh wrote on 2021-07-01, 20:20:

but virtualpc and vmware are not emulators, they are virtualizers, they are almost the same thing as i install win98 directly on my core2quad, they can emulate a sound, video and network card, but they don't emulate a processor.

The first version of Connectix Virtual PC for x86 host computers was the 4.0 released in 2000 and 1.x Vmware was released in 1999.
I don't recall x86 hardware virtualization being a thing at the time.

They have always been virtualizers. Emulation will always require superior hardware than the one being emulated. And even if it wasn't, it would have a lot of problems to run on windows 10

Virtualization on x86 has been around since unix code was written for x86*

Actually no. Connectix Virtual PC has started as a program for Apple computers, meaning it's been a PC emulator. For the x86 version I wouldn't be absolutely certain they truly make virtualisation.

Deksor wrote on 2021-07-02, 20:25:

Rikintosh wrote on 2021-07-02, 00:52:

lolo799 wrote on 2021-07-01, 21:58:

The first version of Connectix Virtual PC for x86 host computers was the 4.0 released in 2000 and 1.x Vmware was released in 1999.
I don't recall x86 hardware virtualization being a thing at the time.

They have always been virtualizers. Emulation will always require superior hardware than the one being emulated. And even if it wasn't, it would have a lot of problems to run on windows 10

Virtualization on x86 has been around since unix code was written for x86*

Actually no. Connectix Virtual PC has started as a program for Apple computers, meaning it's been a PC emulator. For the x86 version I wouldn't be absolutely certain they truly make virtualisation.

Eventually MickySoft bought it and renamed it. That is what I used on my XP Pro box to run REd Hat 6.2, OS/2 v4 and Doe setions all at the same time with 512meg of ram. Why have things gotten so huge and bloated since then?

Even today DosEmu and a whole host of other emulators are available that started out on other *nixs.

Rikintosh wrote on 2021-07-02, 15:57:

...

BTW, your Google photo embed did not work.

Please either edit your post to attach the photos on VOGONS or consider using an alternate file host like Imgur or others.

If you really want to use Google, see here for my procedure for sharing from Google Photos. (Google Drive is similar.)
Re: Televideo Telewave Audio 32 sound card, questions about its onboard wavetable ROM

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-07-02, 19:17:

Well that sucks. Not sure why you're getting a max of DX2-66 on that though, machines I have that max out around there for emulation are an Atom N270 and a Celeron Mobile 1.6 (Dothan). My T7200 (C2D 2Ghz) manages up to about Pentium 200, maybe more, I haven't been emulating anything that needs more than about a P-166.

I don't know if you've heard about putting socket 771 Xeons in quad 775 boards, but that might get you a bit of a speed bump for cheap, they sell for under $20 USD and with the cache are equivalent to Extreme Edition Core2 Quads. Details.. https://www.delidded.com/category/mods/

Yes, unfortunately my motherboard wouldn't accept it, even though I mod. It is a simple oem motherboard, there are no instructions in the bios to work with anything above a quad Qxxxx
I think the only viable solution would be for me to save some money, and buy a new board to use a pentium g4560 And in the future, upgrade to a better processor.

In the past i had an asus prime b250 or something, there was an i3 7100, 16gb ddr4 2400 with intel optane nvme, and a radeon rx470. It was a great computer, I was planning to upgrade to an i7 7700. But then the crisis came, and I was selling the parts, until I had to sell everything and use a core2duo with ddr2 memory. Luckily I found a slightly better kit with a core2quad, which I swapped out some capacitors, and I'm using now.

as for performance, there are two interpretations of "working" the pcem. One is to install windows and some games, and run them satisfactorily, with little lag, and few sound problems. (but if you look at the top bar, the marker should show 100%, but it will be showing something lower, which means your host is not being able to maintain full speed)

The second interpretation is to observe the marker in the title bar, which must show 100% all the time. In the meno misc -> machine, you can see a graph that shows the execution speed, which should always be 100%. Below that, it means that your computer is struggling but is not able to maintain the speed of the emulated machine, that is, your computer is running with a slow-down.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-07-02, 20:19:

Did you see the PM I sent you? Guessing shipping would cost too much?

And for the mods... No, I am not selling anything. Just trying to help out a fellow computer nerd.

Sorry, didn't see your message. How much would it cost?

Rikintosh wrote on 2021-07-03, 01:41:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-07-02, 20:19:

Did you see the PM I sent you? Guessing shipping would cost too much?

And for the mods... No, I am not selling anything. Just trying to help out a fellow computer nerd.

Sorry, didn't see your message. How much would it cost?

I'm not sure on shipping cost. You can email me your address and I will check.

My email is in the PM I sent you.