VOGONS


First post, by Vaudane

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All going well I will soon be receiving a new-old-stock piece of hardware with all manuals and installation disks. On all me searches online I have never found mention of either of these beyond they exist so it wouldn't be a stretch to say these may be the last in existence.

For the 3.5" disks I have a Linux machine with a floppy drive I can just use dd on, but the only system I have a 5.25" drive on is my 386. What would be the best approach here?

Also, with the manuals,how do I go about getting a high quality scan for archiving purposes?

Reply 1 of 14, by TheMobRules

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For disk imaging under DOS environments I highly recommend M. Brutman's DskImage. It's a very simple utility, but it's fast, produces exact copies of the original disk and can retry reading failed sectors.

I would avoid stuff such as WinImage as the image produced is not identical to the original as it writes its own stuff to the boot sector. Also, if at some point you use Windows 9x, make sure your original disks are write protected as Windows will modify the boot sector by just accessing the disk.

Reply 2 of 14, by Horun

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For manual scans I use my Iphone and take pictures then use PaintShop Pro and edit/size them, then import into Acrobat Pro for a .PDF. I have a scanner but it is quicker/easier to just take pictures of the pages.
Not the best solution but it works....

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Reply 3 of 14, by BitWrangler

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If you're gonna do a bit of this sort of thing, you might want to make a simple book scanning rig, something along the lines of https://hackaday.com/2011/07/18/diy-book-scan … -600-pageshour/ which basically is, something to hold the camera in position, good lighting, and glass to press the page down so you get a pic of it flat and straight.

However, you might find that if you're just getting booklets that are simply stapled and of A5 size, then pulling the staple and putting them through a sheet feed scanner at an office supply store or print shop is real easy, or setting up your own flatbed, AIO printer etc. Some people even go as far as guillotining off a glued up spine to use a sheet feeder.

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Reply 4 of 14, by Pierre32

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Horun wrote on 2021-07-06, 22:55:

For manual scans I use my Iphone and take pictures then use PaintShop Pro and edit/size them, then import into Acrobat Pro for a .PDF. I have a scanner but it is quicker/easier to just take pictures of the pages.
Not the best solution but it works....

On my Android phone I use the Microsoft Lens app. Generates PDFs directly so you can skip the PC step!

Reply 5 of 14, by Jo22

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Yay! This method reminds me of all these old spy films. James Bond would be jealous. 😁

Let's turn these snap shots into micro film, and I'd be perfect!

Edit: But if you insist using PDF, please have a look at PDF/A. 😀
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/A

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Reply 6 of 14, by Joseph_Joestar

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Taking pictures from a phone is ok for something you need done quick, but I wouldn't recommend it for proper document archival. The angles at which you take photos won't be the same every time which can result in uneven page alignment.

Best to use a scanner for that purpose.

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Reply 7 of 14, by Pierre32

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-07-07, 07:33:

Taking pictures from a phone is ok for something you need done quick, but I wouldn't recommend it for proper document archival. The angles at which you take photos won't be the same every time which can result in uneven page alignment.

Best to use a scanner for that purpose.

A scanner is certainly the best option - but if you don't have the hardware, the output of MS Lens is very impressive (perspective correction, easy cropping, OCR etc).

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/mi … af-b5874a8e6f2b

Jo22 wrote on 2021-07-07, 07:07:
Yay! This method reminds me of all these old spy films. James Bond would be jealous. :D […]
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Yay! This method reminds me of all these old spy films. James Bond would be jealous. 😁

Let's turn these snap shots into micro film, and I'd be perfect!

Edit: But if you insist using PDF, please have a look at PDF/A. 😀
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/A

This information is new to me! Good to know.

Reply 8 of 14, by Vaudane

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Thanks for the information guys! I don't know what form the manual will be in, if its a thick book, booklets bound by arch lever, or stapled books but these are all good methods to know.

TheMobRules wrote on 2021-07-06, 19:47:

For disk imaging under DOS environments I highly recommend M. Brutman's DskImage. It's a very simple utility, but it's fast, produces exact copies of the original disk and can retry reading failed sectors.

I would avoid stuff such as WinImage as the image produced is not identical to the original as it writes its own stuff to the boot sector. Also, if at some point you use Windows 9x, make sure your original disks are write protected as Windows will modify the boot sector by just accessing the disk.

Exactly what I was after thanks. And TIL about windows messing with the boot sector. I've ordered a CF card so I can run a DOS environment that I can swap out easily with other machines and read out the images.

Reply 9 of 14, by Deksor

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TheMobRules wrote on 2021-07-06, 19:47:

For disk imaging under DOS environments I highly recommend M. Brutman's DskImage. It's a very simple utility, but it's fast, produces exact copies of the original disk and can retry reading failed sectors.

I would avoid stuff such as WinImage as the image produced is not identical to the original as it writes its own stuff to the boot sector. Also, if at some point you use Windows 9x, make sure your original disks are write protected as Windows will modify the boot sector by just accessing the disk.

This only happens when you create a new image with winimage 😀

But imaging disks on windows isn't a great idea because even windows tends to mess with the files on the disk. What I'd recommend to op, whatever you do, write-lock your disks to avoid any program messing with your disk !

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Reply 10 of 14, by Mister Xiado

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For stapled manuals, a flatbed scanner is fine, but for bound manuals, perhaps a proper book scanner. They're specialized equipment that prevents excessive spine damage to books, as you only need to open them to about 90º to scan two facing pages.

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Reply 11 of 14, by Jo22

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Deksor wrote on 2021-07-09, 15:48:
TheMobRules wrote on 2021-07-06, 19:47:

For disk imaging under DOS environments I highly recommend M. Brutman's DskImage. It's a very simple utility, but it's fast, produces exact copies of the original disk and can retry reading failed sectors.

I would avoid stuff such as WinImage as the image produced is not identical to the original as it writes its own stuff to the boot sector. Also, if at some point you use Windows 9x, make sure your original disks are write protected as Windows will modify the boot sector by just accessing the disk.

This only happens when you create a new image with winimage 😀

But imaging disks on windows isn't a great idea because even windows tends to mess with the files on the disk. What I'd recommend to op, whatever you do, write-lock your disks to avoid any program messing with your disk !

I second that. Especially Windows 9x is a beast when it comes to mess up floppies.

http://www.os2museum.com/wp/the-ihc-damage/

That's why I use either Windows 3.1/WinImage 3 or a modern Windows.

Write-lock.. It's important to remember that it works in reverse on 5,25" diskettes:
To enable write-protection, a little label must be attached to the floppy's write protection notch.

Many people get that wrong, like the
librarians of my local library.
A single Windows 95/98 PC is enough to destroy history. 😟

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 12 of 14, by Caluser2000

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-07-10, 21:25:
I second that. Especially Windows 9x is a beast when it comes to mess up floppies. […]
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Deksor wrote on 2021-07-09, 15:48:
TheMobRules wrote on 2021-07-06, 19:47:

For disk imaging under DOS environments I highly recommend M. Brutman's DskImage. It's a very simple utility, but it's fast, produces exact copies of the original disk and can retry reading failed sectors.

I would avoid stuff such as WinImage as the image produced is not identical to the original as it writes its own stuff to the boot sector. Also, if at some point you use Windows 9x, make sure your original disks are write protected as Windows will modify the boot sector by just accessing the disk.

This only happens when you create a new image with winimage 😀

But imaging disks on windows isn't a great idea because even windows tends to mess with the files on the disk. What I'd recommend to op, whatever you do, write-lock your disks to avoid any program messing with your disk !

I second that. Especially Windows 9x is a beast when it comes to mess up floppies.

http://www.os2museum.com/wp/the-ihc-damage/

That's why I use either Windows 3.1/WinImage 3 or a modern Windows.

Write-lock.. It's important to remember that it works in reverse on 5,25" diskettes:
To enable write-protection, a little label must be attached to the floppy's write protection notch.

Many people get that wrong, like the
librarians of my local library.
A single Windows 95/98 PC is enough to destroy history. 😟

Why? You can just shell out tp MS Dos 7.x and use that.

ttps://www.disk-image.com/screen_dos.htm here is one and there have been a ton of others over the years that don't require any version of MS Windows. The simtel archives have a crap load of the iirc.

Is that copy of Win3.1 Winimage been licensed and payed for prey tell?

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2021-07-11, 02:02. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 13 of 14, by Horun

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I use Winimage 7 under XP for nearly all my 720k/1.44m floppies images. Have used DCP and a few others (older raread/rawrite, etc) on the 486 for work on 360k floppies.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.

Reply 14 of 14, by Jo22

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-10, 21:48:

Why? You can just shell out tp MS Dos 7.x and use that.

Because.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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