mrwho wrote on 2021-07-14, 10:10:

I have four old servers lying around the house. As they are heavy power-hungry breasts, I rarely play with them (and I'm not even sure they are functioning correctly as I write this).

Is there any scenario where they might be fun to play with, something that can't be done with "ordinary"retro machines?

Show us what these models are and photos would be helpful?

I'm still searching for more information on one server I have.

Cheers,

Look here:

pentiumspeed wrote on 2021-07-15, 17:36:

Show us what these models are and photos would be helpful?

I'm still searching for more information on one server I have.

Cheers,

The ones I got are:
- One HP NetServer LCII
- One Acer Altos G700
- Two Dell PowerEdge 2600

Photos at the moment are rather difficult, because they are on a pile behind a pile (who here doesn't feel this isn't a true collector 😀)...

Got an old dual Xeon system dated 2004. Huge Intel Server Chassis SC5200 in a fetching beige colour. It's noisy and ludicrously heavy and I have come close to getting rid of it on numerous occasions!

I have a dual Xeon system from 2005 still in regular use as my main backup server. (12 GB RAM, Windows Server 2008 R2, eight 3 TB drives on a RocketRAID 2320).

It's getting kind of finicky though and sometimes doesn't want to start up, especially on cold days. I'll probably have to replace it soon.

FYI the netserver LM is documented here: https://www.ultimateretro.net/motherboard/show/2834. There are 2 manuals there that cover various early netservers. Buy they are very scant on info. I'm currently documenting the early netservers. Don't think i've found the LCII, got the LC3 and LC though. Here is a link to everything we have on HP: https://www.ultimateretro.net/result/?manufacturerId=189. If anyone has any manuals on them please let me know.

For me old servers are really about the architecture/historical interest. For example the netserver LM (intel xpress) is an unusual 486 pentium ready platform. Likewise the 450GX quad Ppro is an interesting platform too. They aren't particularly useful, but neither are PS/2s. You have to be a special kinda bonkers to want PS/2s and really, you're probably mentally ill if you've networked them with token ring, and have routers, and have 4 and 16Mb/s networks. MCA can lead to other disorders like EISA...

My attempts to rationalize why I need all these old servers. They are useful to network old computers! Good luck finding a thick ethernet/FDDI/token ring adapter for a pci express motherboard! Ha Ha rationalization! I have to use these NICs because they are period correct, err...um...err and therefore I can't install modern NIC's in those computers! Ha Ha rationalization! Now i can install FDDI in that server, and that sever over there that has 100Mb/s Ethernet so I'm good to go. And that's all period correct! It all makes perfectly logical sense really.

Thanks for those links.

The oldest Netserver I have is the LH3 from 1998. I believe this uses the same system board as the LC3. If I had them both I would try swapping the system boards to see what happens.

I also have the LH4 from 1999 which I believe is identical to the LH3 except for the system board. Apparently, you can turn a LH3 into a LH4 by plugging in a LH4 system board. However, I could not get this to work. (The machine refuses to POST.)

mR_Slug wrote on 2021-07-18, 19:45:

You have to be a special kinda bonkers to want PS/2s and really, you're probably mentally ill if you've networked them with token ring, and have routers, and have 4 and 16Mb/s networks. MCA can lead to other disorders like EISA...

Do you have this actually setup? sounds awesome! what hardware/software you running?
There you go you've impressed me that's another excuse 😉

Those old HP Netservers are legendary. Everyone who is anyone had them in there business.
Running Novell Netware or Windows NT.

chinny22 wrote on 2021-07-19, 10:07:

Do you have this actually setup? sounds awesome! what hardware/software you running?
There you go you've impressed me that's another excuse 😉

Currently since I've moved house, no. I've been more concerned with horrifying wiring, plumbing etc. My setup before I moved was based around a Madge MAU. It's actually a token ring switch. It can have 4 separate rings. Also does dual ring at 32Mb/s, I haven't played with that though. One of the coolest features is an uplink port that can do fast Ethernet but it is impossible to find the card for it. Even Louie Ohland (9595 pages) can't find one. I had just started to add a 4MB's ring to it and had to move. Had a bit of trouble setting up the router with 3 cards though. So almost that setup.

The router for Ethernet to token ring is based of Damn Small Linux. Which is based of Knoppix, based of Debian. This means that configuration was a little tricky. As there is the Linux way, Debian way, Knoppix way and DSL way of configuration files. Anyway it worked for 10+ years. Had most of my PS/2 and a few other things like cheap print servers connected to it. Ran the thing on an IBM PC330 (Pentium 120). If i were going to make a router again I would probably use Slackware. Here is a HDD image of the router. If you use it, don't throw any crazy hardware at it. It's DSL from 10 years ago, think 2.4 kernel IIRC.

http://66.113.161.23/~mR_Slug/projects/eth-tr-router/

I did a bit or research on pre fast Ethernet (pre '95). Seems like 16Mb's was the fastest practical option. FDDI was not really at end computers till '91 and then really only at servers. Haven't researched passed '92 though. There is an article in Infoworld from '90 or '91 about Microsoft upgrading the network to FDDI, at the time their ENTIRE network was one Ethernet backbone (with bridges). That should give an indication of speed back then even at a company that was rich.

So 16Mb/s token ring is really the performance option from '89 to '94 and fits in well with the 486 era. On a small network you'll probably get close to that anyway, which it far faster that it would have been back in the day on a large network. I really wouldn't recommend anyone go the token ring route unless you have MCA machines. You're far far better off getting F Ethernet in your systems.

Another use for old servers is .... a server. I ran a DEC server 7000, Quad Ppro (2 installed) from ~2003 to ~2018 with win 2000. Now it made a lot more sense in 2003 when I got it. Realized it had probably cost me 5K (yikes!) in electric over that time, got it on the business though:-). Decide to run the server on a P3 laptop after that, but it broke in shipping when I moved. Never really intended it to run this long, but never got round to upgrading it, so it stayed and stayed.

Man that token ring setup sounded cool although I doubt I'll ever go down that rabbit hole, as you say makes no sense I only go as far back as 486.
I've seen some remnants (wall ports, old Comm's hardware left in server room corners) but never seen a token ring network up and running, hell only non Cat5 networks I came across was our school and 1 business running Ethernet over coax.

Early networking and its limitations fascinates me. You were fighting both hardware and software and it's shortcomings. Netware was really good but not perfect at "hiding itself" to keep applications happy. But even Netware you still had to break up your network in smaller chunks to make it manageable. It was a totally different world.

The usual Upgrade to the token Ring switches was ATM155. got one Olicom featuring this or Token Ring 100 availiable from Madge.
I agree with some others here:
Old servers are much cooler than usual PC boxes.
Sometimes difficult up to sophisticated to configure zou are allways proud if you have one more installed and running.
Who else has 6 to 8 Pentium 3 Xeons, up to 4 Pentium 1 or PPro in a single box?
This is still real hardware compared to a 32 core CPU in an up to date laptop.
On the downside there are bulky, heavy , power consumers often featuring proprietary parts.
But I still like these professional equipment more than this fast living gaming gear.
Along with several netservers I have allmost the complete line of Compaq Proliant servers at home.
Starting from the single CPU Pentium Proliant 1000 via the quad PPro Proliant 5500 up to the octa P3 Xeon Proliant 8500.
Btw. I still have a spare of these LM trays but no system using these.