Oh my, so I contacted eBay about their Buyer Protection and they said that I only have 30 days for their Money Back Guarantee. Wasn't it 60 days? I offered to pay return shipping to the seller and he closed my return request without comment. Watch out for a seller going by smartbuys88. I then left negative feedback and within 1 hour he was able to get it completely deleted. Jesus, it used to be that negative comments couldn't be removed for any reason. I've heard that large stores can get their negative feedback deleted, but this seller only has a rating of 26. It is getting really hard to trust the feedback profile on eBay. I've since opened a Paypal case, but I'm sure this sly chap has a method to weasel out of that as well. I might be out 3-figures for some junk RAM.

feipoa wrote on 2021-07-29, 00:20:

Oh my, so I contacted eBay about their Buyer Protection and they said that I only have 30 days for their Money Back Guarantee. Wasn't it 60 days? I offered to pay return shipping to the seller and he closed my return request without comment. Watch out for a seller going by smartbuys88. I then left negative feedback and within 1 hour he was able to get it completely deleted. Jesus, it used to be that negative comments couldn't be removed for any reason. I've heard that large stores can get their negative feedback deleted, but this seller only has a rating of 26. It is getting really hard to trust the feedback profile on eBay. I've since opened a Paypal case, but I'm sure this sly chap has a method to weasel out of that as well. I might be out 3-figures for some junk RAM.

Best way to leave negative feedback is "Item didn't function as described/dead on arrival; seller didn't communicate or help"
It cannot be removed.

When I buy untested I know its untested. When I buy tested I know what to expect. When I read a description without working, not working, parts only , refurbished etc, thats a dodgy one. You can't say it works, not working, or can't test you seem to be deliberately hiding! maybe for shady profit?
Sorry i learned the hard way.
I got untested stuff posted to me that I will find interesting but i know what it is; and thats face value because the dudes say if it doesn't work i can send it back.
I have asked questions to sellers about shiny new looking second hand gpu's at rediculously low prices but i get no reply to "can you please tell me this works"
hell they could at least reply "i cannot test it but i will accept return of it if it doesn't"

I got a PC here that took 5 years to build it is now over 20 years old I learned fast not to put up with dodgy / scalping scammy eBay sellers.
If its too expensive theres swap meets all over the world people trade parts and pc's with all the goodies eBay doesn't have like sound card audio breakout boxes and actual pci gpu's with filled memory not the 1mb poultry eBay ones with empty DIMMS because they got salvaged (newbie traps i call those)
Please don't import hard disks buy local unless they are notebook disks fragile is a risk local but foreign is a almost certain disaster! postage for really old XT era disks be sure the seller parks the heads! postage would be phenomenal for fragile international!

@feipoa, hope you get a refund sorted in short order.

As far as the compatibility issue goes, I see a couple of posts online regarding memory 'half-reporting' with the 440FX chipset...

...this one, which may simply be down to using Sun memory modules

https://www.vcfed.org/forum/forum/technical-s … -natoma-chipset

...and this one, which may be more relevant

https://www.cpu-world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=222044

The 2nd last poster, @Callahan, seems to be running PR440FX boards with Samsung KMM372F3200BK4-6 (256MB EDO DIMM / 168 pin 3.3V / Buffered ECC / 60ns). The 50ns variants seem to be available here

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-24383-256MB-168 … -5/113740107991

Datasheet attached

Best way to leave negative feedback is "Item didn't function as described/dead on arrival; seller didn't communicate or help"
It cannot be removed.
I will keep that in mind. It used to be that no feedback left was able to be altered. Then it used to be that a seller could try to make amens with a buyer to get the feedback removed. Now it seems like the seller can remove negative feedback for nearly whatever reason they want. I bet there is a check box which says "racism" and it automatically moves the feedback without even having a human check for racism.

The guy probably has some tricks up his sleeves for dealing with Paypal as well, so I most likely will have to get the funds back from AMEX. I've already offered to pay return shipping, so I don't see what this seller really has to loose. Let him take the fussy memory back and sell it to some other sap who isn't so persistent in getting a refund.

PC Hoarder Patrol. Thanks for this. That gentleman also has issues with 16Mx4 not reporting the full size. Could the Intel website be wrong about those 16Mx4 chips working? Seems unlikely.

Could this board not support double-sided DIMMs?

What is curious about that first post is that the modules that see only half the memory are 16Mx4. Then there are those SEC modules of 256 MB which are also 16MX4, but the board sees all the memory.

I do have some 256 MB Micron MT36LD3272G-5 X modules on order, which are also 16Mx4, but are 4K instead of 8K. It will be some time before I receive the 256 MB modules and can test them.

Can't imagine Intel would list modules that couldn't be fully recognised - this is the earliest link I could find for the PR440FX (Apr-Oct 1999) which expands a bit on my earlier link by having vendor tested links as well, but the Samsung 128MB module is still the only one tested by Intel

https://web.archive.org/web/19990418052240/ht … d/pr/pr_mem.htm

I agree, I also cannot image Intel would goof this up, so I think there is something else going on with these OKI chips.

These are the 256 MB modules I just ordered.

I paid $69 with free shipping to AVICC. Seller was asking $100. I should have put in the offer at $45. He accepted my $69 offer within 5 minutes. haha.

But today I saw another listing for the same modules at $60 + $5 shipping to AVICC and it was for 8 pieces instead of 4. To add some salt to the wound, I got an offer from this alternate seller for $45 +5 shipping (to AVICC). Not like I need 8 pieces, but I still overpaid by $19 still.

I'd be hopeful 😀 as these look like the 50ns variant of the ones Intel listed as vendor tested by Micron

Oh nice, could you paste the hyperlink that table came from?

feipoa wrote on 2021-07-29, 09:49:

Oh nice, could you paste the hyperlink that table came from?

https://web.archive.org/web/19991008004034fw_ … fx.html#pr440fx

how did you get overdrives? I don't recall signing off on that.

I think the summoning spell brings me here failed, as it looks like the problem is "solved". If not, you know how to PM me. But whenever I see 64mb show up when I put in 128's... The go-to answer usually involves density and memory ranks. The modules must be wired as single sided double density. and yes, I know there are chips on both sides. The dimms you have are likely just fine. (the first ones).

on a side note, those 256mb dimms, does teh seller have more? I need about 16...

What's the most reliable form of the summon? "Pentium pro, pentium pro, pentium pro" and click your heels together, or "luckybob, luckybob, luckybob" in front of a mirror? ... or is the sig a hint and a pentagram of potatoes is involved somehow?

Wired as single-sided? That's certainly possible, but the datasheet for these modules would have to be incorrect then because it says it is double-sided. It is possible that a previous owner mucked them up somehow, but I'm not sure how. I think BitWrangler is onto something about the row depth, but the Intel website shows 16Mx4 modules working fine for 128 MB sticks. There's something else goofy going on with these.

So far, I haven't had any luck getting my dough back. The eBay chat customer service was useless. They thanked me for 22 years of dedicated support, but that fluff didn't buy me squat towards resolving this. I then sent some lengthy e-mails about my negative feedback being deleted and got some "bot" e-mail replies that are intended to look like real people replying, but they aren't. One from Rosie the bot and another from Gladilyn the bot. I'm pushing for human interaction. Both bots claim that once they delete feedback, it cannot be left again, which sounds like BS to me.

No wonder there are so many near 100% feedbacks these days from sellers - they can delete bad feedback. It didn't used to be like this in the late 90's and early 2000's. The place was teaming with sellers in the 80's and they were really afraid of that negative feedback. But with eBay trying to compete with the likes of Amazon, they are breaking their own rules to attract more sellers. I think I'll be avoiding eBay purchases as much as possible moving forward, favouring other platforms when possible.

luckybob wrote on 2021-07-29, 18:19:

Got them from CPU-World a year or two or three ago. They were NIB, but no "box".

I received those 50 ns, 256 MB Micron EDO DIMM modules. I am pleased to report that the MB's BIOS sees all the memory and that the system boots up with the jumper set to 50 ns. MemTest also reports 1024 MB memory and on the 50 ns setting, the speed reported bumped from around 83 MByte/s to 103 MByte/s.

If unsupported memory is read correctly, I suspect those Smart Modules must have something funky going on with them or they are defective. Another of the large eBay memory manufactures said that those Smart modules are listed in their database to work with the PR440FX, further supporting the idea that they are defective.

Problem now is dealing with the eBay seller of the goofy Smart modules. I put in a request for return and he closed it within an hour. He also stopped replying to my messages. I call eBay and they say that their Money Back Guarantee period is only good for 30 days, but I could have swore it was 60 days.? So I try to get my money back via Paypal. After about 5 days, Paypal gives me an address to return the modules for a full refund. The address is missing the name of the person or company to address the return to. Odd 'eh?

When I look up the address on google maps, I see that there are 3 suites for this commercial building. The seller omitted the suite number in his address. Is he trying to make it so that the parcel cannot be returned? I talk to Paypal and they send a request for further clarification on the address. 3 days later he sends the exact same address. I tell Paypal that this seems kind of suspicious. Nonetheless, I mailed the memory back and have tracking. I suspect the parcel may not get returned. I don't see a mailbox on the door of the building, nor a slot in the door. Is it a common strategy to omit suite numbers and personal/company names on returns so that parcels cannot be delivered?

12 years ago I had a case where I returned something and the seller didn't pick up the parcel. Paypal closed the case and sides with the seller. lol. After a lot of faxes back and forth, Paypal eats the loss and give my money back (12 years ago case).

Have you done much testing with the PR440FX?

I just wonder if we lose much performance to other 440FX motherboards because of the lack of memory tweaking in the bios.

Nice board, but the bios is not great and if it fails the chip is a chore to replace.
I postponed PIIODP tests because of time, but I guess I don't need to do that anymore 😀

My question being for benchmarking purposes, would I get the more out of my PR440FX overclocked overdrive to 350mhz or running at 333mhz in another board that has better tweaking options.

dirkmirk wrote on 2021-08-12, 23:56:

My question being for benchmarking purposes, would I get the more out of my PR440FX overclocked overdrive to 350mhz or running at 333mhz in another board that has better tweaking options.

This is what sunday afternoons are for.
Especially when it's cold and raining. 😀

What is the other board? So feipoa knows what to go against in a fight.

I dont have another pentium pro motherboard, I just ponder whether memory tweaking gets more results for benchmarking than overclocking the cpu, as far as I know theirs only one other Pentium pro motherboard which supports overclocking the fsb which was the Abit AB-PS6, Ive never seen one for sale.

Well ya theres not much memory tweaking outside of lowering latencies. But usually less is more. Filling all memory banks sometimes can make lower latencys unstable and usually causes your north bridge to run hotter. But As far as tweaking ram on vintage hardware there's more value in overclocking the cpu for sure but you might gain a couple FPS from ram tweaking and once your CPU hits a brick wall tam timings is all thats left. Depends on the platform and the type of ram of course, anything other than unbuffered is going to run slower anyhow my 2 cents.

Hmm? Buffered is usually seen as slower in one or two stick systems, are you meaning that for multiple DIMM applications that buffered doesn't need the timings slack to stay stable?