VOGONS


First post, by Kahenraz

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While swapping around hardware in a build I had made recently, I noticed at some video cards were causing Windows 98 to hang. This only happened after installing the appropriate drivers and acceleration was enabled. I was certain that there was some kind of hardware conflict because there was no issue in DOS and the problem appeared across several generations of cards.

The cause resulted from pairing a Pentium 3 with an older 440EX chipset. While this did work for the most part, I believe there is a problem when SSE instructions are called that cause the system to lock up. The reason this was triggered by the graphics card drivers was likely due to SSE optimizations. And since it's a kernel mode driver, the whole system locked up. I'm aware that SSE didn't exist around the time of this chipset but I had no idea that such a pairing was unstable.

Some of you may already know about this but it was a discovery for me and I wanted to share.

For those who may be curious, installing Intel's chipset drivers did not help.

Reply 1 of 13, by Caluser2000

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Does the same thing happen with a modern 32-bit Linux?

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 3 of 13, by Caluser2000

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Hardware will run as intended...

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 5 of 13, by BitWrangler

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Kahenraz wrote on 2021-08-10, 21:13:

For those who may be curious, installing Intel's chipset drivers did not help.

Hmmm I'd wanna go ... clean install >> Chipset drivers >> directX >> video drivers... before I started chucking blame around.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 6 of 13, by Kahenraz

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I've been unable to find any way to make this board work with a Pentium 3. I don't know what the issue is.

The board works fine with some of the Mendocino Celerons if they aren't clocked too high.

I would be curious to know how old of a chipset people have had success with getting to work with a Pentium 3 in terms of functional compatibility (irrespective of performance).

Reply 7 of 13, by chinny22

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Which CPU were you using?
A lot of earlier BX boards can't go above a 600Mhz Katmai, Not saying that was the cause of your problem as at least you got into dos but maybe your M/B's support get's a bit buggy on later processors.
Personally I've never tried P3 on anything earlier then BX

Reply 8 of 13, by Kahenraz

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I actually tried this again earlier today. I tried several Pentium 3s including SL35D, SL3BN, and SL35E. This motherboard only supports 66 Mhz FSB so all of these were clocked much lower than what they were rated for so clock speed was not a problem.

I did a clean install of Windows 98 SE, installed Intel Chip set drivers 3.2, reboot, DirectX 9, reboot, NVIDIA drivers, reboot, then freeze as the desktop loads.

Booting into Safe Mode, disabling hardware acceleration, or swapping to a Pentium 2 or Celeron all solve the lockup issue.

As another test, I tried the same procedure today with Windows ME and had the same results. I also tried using the Pentium 3 before and after installing the Intel chipset drivers but it made no difference.

Reply 9 of 13, by Kahenraz

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The system only locks up when pairing a Pentium 3 with NVIDIA, ATI, and Matrox, but NOT 3dfx. I tested this with a GeForce 4 MX 440, GeForce 3, 4 Ti, and FX, ATI Radeon 9250, and a Matrox G400. The system locks up as Windows is loading the desktop. On the G400, there is actually visible corruption while on NVIDIA and ATI it's just a black screen.

There are no problems when paired with a Voodoo 3 and the system is very fast. It's tempting to keep this combination but I'll lose out on DirectX 8.1 and 9 shaders.

I even managed to get the board to boot with a Coppermine Pentium 3 with the appropriate slocket but the system is still unstable.

I wonder what the relationship is that's causing the system to become unstable. This is very strange.

Reply 11 of 13, by drosse1meyer

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Kahenraz wrote on 2021-09-03, 12:20:
The system only locks up when pairing a Pentium 3 with NVIDIA, ATI, and Matrox, but NOT 3dfx. I tested this with a GeForce 4 MX […]
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The system only locks up when pairing a Pentium 3 with NVIDIA, ATI, and Matrox, but NOT 3dfx. I tested this with a GeForce 4 MX 440, GeForce 3, 4 Ti, and FX, ATI Radeon 9250, and a Matrox G400. The system locks up as Windows is loading the desktop. On the G400, there is actually visible corruption while on NVIDIA and ATI it's just a black screen.

There are no problems when paired with a Voodoo 3 and the system is very fast. It's tempting to keep this combination but I'll lose out on DirectX 8.1 and 9 shaders.

I even managed to get the board to boot with a Coppermine Pentium 3 with the appropriate slocket but the system is still unstable.

I wonder what the relationship is that's causing the system to become unstable. This is very strange.

Which 3dfx card? Voodoo1 (and 2's I believe) did not use IRQs.

P1: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodoo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2-V2: Dell Dimension - 400 Mhz, Voodoo2, 256 MB
P!!! Custom: 1 Ghz, GeForce2 Pro/64MB, 384 MB

Reply 12 of 13, by Joseph_Joestar

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Kahenraz wrote on 2021-09-03, 12:20:

There are no problems when paired with a Voodoo 3 and the system is very fast. It's tempting to keep this combination but I'll lose out on DirectX 8.1 and 9 shaders.

DirectX 8.1 isn't used by any games made before 2001.

If you only want to run Win9x era games on that system, not having a DX8/9 compatible card is perfectly fine.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 13 of 13, by Kahenraz

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Oetker wrote on 2021-09-03, 12:25:

Could it be because the Voodoo 3 is basically a PCI card with an AGP connector, and the other cards use AGP features?

This is interesting theory. For some reason though my FX 5200 PCI prevents this motherboard from posting; I know this card is good and it works fine even in a Socket 7. The only other comparable card I have is a GeForce MX 4000 PCI which, unlike the GeForce 4 MX 440, does allow me to get to the desktop. OpenGL works but anything Direct3D causes the system to lock up.

So it would seem that AGP is somewhat related but using a PCI card does not completely solve the problem.

I can confirm that this is still related to the processor because Direct3D is restored when swapping back to either a Pentium 2 or Celeron.

The oldest NVIDIA card I have to test with is a GeForce 2 Ultra. I used that with a very old TNT driver version 4.12 without success. Whatever the problem is, it can't be solved by drivers alone.