VOGONS


Reply 80 of 128, by drosse1meyer

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-09-03, 16:52:
kjliew wrote on 2021-09-03, 16:04:

The aged long Marvin Myth of requiring slow machines or some would called "period-correct", fiddling with CPU cache/multipliers to play good old games has already been busted. So it is just as pointless to repeat the same rhetoric for those who would rather spend their time on games instead of tweaking.

Note that the thread starter asked this question in the "Old Hardware" forum. My reply was tailored with that taken into consideration.

No one is saying that it's necessary to play on period correct hardware to get the best experience. And you've already made your point about emulation. Everyone is free to choose whatever option they want.

I think we all scared away the OP haha

P1 Build: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodooo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2 Build: Dell Dimension R400 - 400 Mhz, GeForce2 32 MB, 128 MB
P3 Build: PIII @ 1 Ghz, 128 MB, GeForce2 GTS 64 MB
Macintosh: Performa 630CD - 6300 board @ 120 MHz, 64 MB, triple boot

Reply 82 of 128, by Shreddoc

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Not sure what's more painful and embarrassing at this point - paying ebay prices for a Voodoo card, or reading kjliew's repetitive hubris as he tries in vain to convince everyone that they're fools for not being him. 🤣

Reply 83 of 128, by BitWrangler

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I just wasted a whole 'nother $5 yesterday on a Voodoo Banshee card. I was on my regular hunt, following the adage of leaving no tern unstoned, and I guess my seabird recognition is bad, because what fell out of the sky was a Guillemot.

2017: Basement full of ancient PC stuff, starting to go through it. 2021: Still starting, heh, many setbacks. So what's this BitWrangler guy's deal ??? >>> Taming the pile, specs to target?

Reply 84 of 128, by cyclone3d

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Hah... I've got more Voodoo 1, 2, and 3 cards than I know what to do with. Most of them came in scrap lots . One v3-3500 was listed as a TV tuner.

The only cards I would like to have that I don't are one of the 2x V2s on a single card and a V5-5500 PCI.

A 6MB V1 would also be nice to have.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 85 of 128, by kjliew

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Shreddoc wrote on 2021-09-03, 21:04:

Not sure what's more painful and embarrassing at this point - paying ebay prices for a Voodoo card, or reading kjliew's repetitive hubris as he tries in vain to convince everyone that they're fools for not being him. 🤣

Presenting an alternative solution is never the same as calling others are fools. I am just as foolish to waste lots of my time, countless sleepless nights to bring qemu-3dfx on the table. But that's fine with me, it's been something I long to accomplish by denying common wisdom that it couldn't be done. It is perfectly fine for those who don't buy into the ideas, yeah emulation/virtualization still sucks, real man has real machine. 🤣

I do sense the future that 32-bit death will soon fall for Windows, too. 32-bit is already dead for Linux and macOS. And I am glad that the solution is impervious to such downfall. Marvin folks would be stocking up old hardware for their lifetime, which is fine if this was their choice. I wish the prices would have come down before the 32-bit apocalypse.

Reply 86 of 128, by Tetrium

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BitWrangler wrote on 2021-09-03, 13:46:

IMO in that era the term "locked" doesn't really apply, it's more "unimplemented". I wouldn't call a P133 locked because it could only do 1.5 and 2x, it's just all it had. Early 75, 90, 100 probably only had 1.5 implemented too, but CC0 stepping upward all seem to do 2x as well. I wouldn't judge the chips based on what happened on an OEM motherboard either.

With the Pentium MMX CPUs (and also the later Pentium 2 CPUs) Intel purposefully disabled some of the CPU multipliers to help prevent the CPUs from being overclocked.
Iirc the earlier (older) CPUs would have a better chance of not having their higher multipliers locked.
I actually spend an afternoon testing a boatload of MMX CPUs from my own stash but unfortunately later on I lost my scrap of paper where I kept my testing results so I can't recollect the details anymore.

I don't remember the specifics of the older (often Socket 5) Pentium non-MMX CPUs but keep in mind that often it was actually the motherboards that supplied only a more limited amount of multipliers (Socket 5 boards supporting only the 1.5x and 2x multipliers, regardless of what multipliers the CPU itself might support).

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 87 of 128, by BitWrangler

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Each time a new multiplier was introduced the CPU was on a new stepping and the older steppings just didn't do that multi, they weren't locked, they never had the capability. It would be a few months after they capitalised on the faster chip that newer steppings filtered down to slower models, so since there was usually a good 6 months between the multi bumps, there would be a nearly a year of 150 and 166(both p54 and p55) that couldn't do 3x, a year of 200(p55) that couldn't do 3.5x etc.

2017: Basement full of ancient PC stuff, starting to go through it. 2021: Still starting, heh, many setbacks. So what's this BitWrangler guy's deal ??? >>> Taming the pile, specs to target?

Reply 88 of 128, by Tetrium

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BitWrangler wrote on 2021-09-04, 21:27:

Each time a new multiplier was introduced the CPU was on a new stepping and the older steppings just didn't do that multi, they weren't locked, they never had the capability. It would be a few months after they capitalised on the faster chip that newer steppings filtered down to slower models, so since there was usually a good 6 months between the multi bumps, there would be a nearly a year of 150 and 166(both p54 and p55) that couldn't do 3x, a year of 200(p55) that couldn't do 3.5x etc.

Regarding the 80502 (s5/s7 Pentium without MMX), all of them seem to have supported BF0 and BF1 multiplier pins according to this datasheet. There doesn't appear to have been a gradual addition of more clock multiplier pins during the Socket 5 Socket 7 Pentium era. The Pentium MMX was kinda an exception as it changed the 1.5x multi for a 3.5x one, but kept the 2 multiplier pins.
AMD added a 3rd multiplier pin for their K6-X based CPUs at some point.
Sure, some CPUs may not have been able to run any faster but this is something which doesn't directly relate to its maximum supported CPU multiplier. The fact that some of the P1 MMX 166MHz CPUs may have had a 3.5x CPU multiplier doesn't mean it can actually run at 233MHz clock frequency.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 89 of 128, by BitWrangler

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The datasheet would make a point if it wasn't dated June 97, i.e. after all the P54 multipliers had been introduced and some 3+ years since the beginning of the family.

2017: Basement full of ancient PC stuff, starting to go through it. 2021: Still starting, heh, many setbacks. So what's this BitWrangler guy's deal ??? >>> Taming the pile, specs to target?

Reply 90 of 128, by renejr902

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Hi guys! I'm very happy with my pci voodoo 3 2000 with my pentium 200 mmx. I have good result. Even need for speed iii is very playable, more than 30fps most of time. Screamer 2 runs perfect. Tomb Raider 1 runs perfect, Croc runs great, Moto Racer runs great. ( with the same voodoo 3 i even played some screamer 2 and tomb raider 1 on my 486 dx2 66mhz and found them at least playable, on a pentium 200mmx its worth it.)

By the way on my Pentium 200mmx my pci voodoo3 pci runs even better than my pci banshee, to me it really worth the difference.

Reply 91 of 128, by Joseph_Joestar

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renejr902 wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:25:

Tomb Raider 1 runs perfect

Not on a Voodoo3.

It may run with a stable frame rate (locked to 30) but it suffers from some graphical glitches such as Lara missing her shadow, pistols flashing white when AA is used and gamma being too washed out, without the possibility of adjustment. For the best Glide experience, you want either a Voodoo1 or a Voodoo2 for that game.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 92 of 128, by drosse1meyer

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renejr902 wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:25:

Hi guys! I'm very happy with my pci voodoo 3 2000 with my pentium 200 mmx. I have good result. Even need for speed iii is very playable, more than 30fps most of time. Screamer 2 runs perfect. Tomb Raider 1 runs perfect, Croc runs great, Moto Racer runs great. ( with the same voodoo 3 i even played some screamer 2 and tomb raider 1 on my 486 dx2 66mhz and found them at least playable, on a pentium 200mmx its worth it.)

By the way on my Pentium 200mmx my pci voodoo3 pci runs even better than my pci banshee, to me it really worth the difference.

voodoo3 on a p1 what is this madness haha

P1 Build: Packard Bell - 233 MMX, Voodooo1, 64 MB, ALS100+
P2 Build: Dell Dimension R400 - 400 Mhz, GeForce2 32 MB, 128 MB
P3 Build: PIII @ 1 Ghz, 128 MB, GeForce2 GTS 64 MB
Macintosh: Performa 630CD - 6300 board @ 120 MHz, 64 MB, triple boot

Reply 93 of 128, by Gmlb256

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renejr902 wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:25:

Hi guys! I'm very happy with my pci voodoo 3 2000 with my pentium 200 mmx. I have good result. Even need for speed iii is very playable, more than 30fps most of time. Screamer 2 runs perfect. Tomb Raider 1 runs perfect, Croc runs great, Moto Racer runs great. ( with the same voodoo 3 i even played some screamer 2 and tomb raider 1 on my 486 dx2 66mhz and found them at least playable, on a pentium 200mmx its worth it.)

By the way on my Pentium 200mmx my pci voodoo3 pci runs even better than my pci banshee, to me it really worth the difference.

I'd rather use a Voodoo2 for this build instead. 🤣

Anyway, the reason why the Voodoo3 is better than the Banshee is due to the second TMU and a bit of more raw power.

Reply 94 of 128, by infiniteclouds

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:33:
renejr902 wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:25:

Tomb Raider 1 runs perfect

Not on a Voodoo3.

It may run with a stable frame rate (locked to 30) but it suffers from some graphical glitches such as Lara missing her shadow, pistols flashing white when AA is used and gamma being too washed out, without the possibility of adjustment. For the best Glide experience, you want either a Voodoo1 or a Voodoo2 for that game.

I had some issues with the game even on a Voodoo 1 - Tomb Raider 1 Voodoo Mipmapping

Reply 95 of 128, by Gmlb256

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infiniteclouds wrote on 2021-09-06, 02:44:

I had some issues with the game even on a Voodoo 1 - Tomb Raider 1 Voodoo Mipmapping

Some of the features on the 3Dfx version Tomb Raider are buggy (mipmap and anti-aliasing) and must be disabled no matter which 3Dfx card is being used.

The only thing that is not normal are these strange brown pixels as mentioned in the second post on the thread you linked. Adding a small heat sink on both FBI and TMU chip (the two large chips with the 3Dfx label) can help to eliminate these artifacts.

Reply 96 of 128, by leileilol

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drosse1meyer wrote on 2021-09-06, 01:00:

voodoo3 on a p1 what is this madness haha

Years ago, feipoa's used a Geforce2 MX with a 486 (am5x86's still a 486 dammit)... the "geforce 2 needs cpu" club remained silent.

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Reply 97 of 128, by renejr902

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:33:
renejr902 wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:25:

Tomb Raider 1 runs perfect

Not on a Voodoo3.

It may run with a stable frame rate (locked to 30) but it suffers from some graphical glitches such as Lara missing her shadow, pistols flashing white when AA is used and gamma being too washed out, without the possibility of adjustment. For the best Glide experience, you want either a Voodoo1 or a Voodoo2 for that game.

Yeah, i forgot about that, i'm sorry. I talked about performance only.

drosse1meyer wrote on 2021-09-06, 01:00:
renejr902 wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:25:

Hi guys! I'm very happy with my pci voodoo 3 2000 with my pentium 200 mmx. I have good result. Even need for speed iii is very playable, more than 30fps most of time. Screamer 2 runs perfect. Tomb Raider 1 runs perfect, Croc runs great, Moto Racer runs great. ( with the same voodoo 3 i even played some screamer 2 and tomb raider 1 on my 486 dx2 66mhz and found them at least playable, on a pentium 200mmx its worth it.)

By the way on my Pentium 200mmx my pci voodoo3 pci runs even better than my pci banshee, to me it really worth the difference.

voodoo3 on a p1 what is this madness haha

Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-06, 01:49:
renejr902 wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:25:

Hi guys! I'm very happy with my pci voodoo 3 2000 with my pentium 200 mmx. I have good result. Even need for speed iii is very playable, more than 30fps most of time. Screamer 2 runs perfect. Tomb Raider 1 runs perfect, Croc runs great, Moto Racer runs great. ( with the same voodoo 3 i even played some screamer 2 and tomb raider 1 on my 486 dx2 66mhz and found them at least playable, on a pentium 200mmx its worth it.)

By the way on my Pentium 200mmx my pci voodoo3 pci runs even better than my pci banshee, to me it really worth the difference.

I'd rather use a Voodoo2 for this build instead. 🤣

Anyway, the reason why the Voodoo3 is better than the Banshee is due to the second TMU and a bit of more raw power.

I bought a voodoo 3 because i had a better deal than for a voodoo 2. And a voodoo 3 can be use in my pentium 2 and 3 too with great performance.

Reply 98 of 128, by foil_fresh

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:33:
renejr902 wrote on 2021-09-06, 00:25:

Tomb Raider 1 runs perfect

Not on a Voodoo3.

It may run with a stable frame rate (locked to 30) but it suffers from some graphical glitches such as Lara missing her shadow, pistols flashing white when AA is used and gamma being too washed out, without the possibility of adjustment. For the best Glide experience, you want either a Voodoo1 or a Voodoo2 for that game.

i'd have never known there was any problem with the V3 running tomb raider if you never said this... to me, the v3 was running it flawlessly 🤣

Reply 99 of 128, by Joseph_Joestar

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infiniteclouds wrote on 2021-09-06, 02:44:

I had some issues with the game even on a Voodoo 1 - Tomb Raider 1 Voodoo Mipmapping

That screenshot in the thread you linked looks very odd. Could it be that your card is overheating or that it might be damaged?

I never had those kind of distortions on my Voodoo1, even with mipmapping enabled. At worst, I had seams on the floor pop up in certain areas due to mipmapping, but that looked nothing like your screenshot.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium