VOGONS


CT2290 for 65$, worth it ?

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Reply 20 of 34, by Warlord

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badmojo wrote on 2021-09-07, 06:40:

The 2290 and the 2230 are basically the same card and both great - you’ll love it 👍

Similar but basically theres a much better chance to get a 2290, with the low noise DACs, than a 2230. A 2230 with a TBS dac is actually a rare card.

Reply 21 of 34, by Warlord

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Oetker wrote on 2021-09-07, 07:01:
Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-06, 21:43:

The CT2290 has a real Yamaha OPL3 integrated into the CT1747 chipset and the MPU-401 actually works well there

There's two types of hanging note bug and it's still got the less-frequent , yet still really annoying, kind, I can confirm this from first-hand experience.

Thats right you still do not fully eliminate all the bugs. The Creative licensed OPL3 which is different from a real OPL3 but sounds the same doesn't have one of the bugs. Those SB16s use a vibra chip doesn't fully eliminate one of the bugs just makes it less frequent and Vibra chip introduces its own set of bugs like rigging and hissing after sounds are played. And you still have the Bug with the wave table when your sample rate is too high.

Still it's probably one of the least bad choices for a creative card, it's far from perfect like I have read here though. I don't know that I would pay 65 dollars for one. I think its more or less worth around 25.00 shipping not included.

I've been in the process for awhile eliminating every piece of creative garbage in my builds and replacing it with alternatives and so far it's been a major upgrade.

Reply 23 of 34, by canthearu

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Horun wrote on 2021-09-07, 00:26:

Should be a good card ! Price may seem a bit high but if includes shipping then is actually good price. Jumper Set SB16 cards do cost more than the PnP later versions where I live and it makes sense.
The PnP types will not work on a 286 (ok maybe if you fiddle fart around enough) and rarely work on 386 and still a pain on 486 from my experience. ... just my opinion.
As others have mentioned based on the included parts it is probably one of the best SB16 you can get for true vintage gear. I say get it if you have a good use for it !

UNISOUND will kick any of these SB PnP cards into action, on almost any PC from 8088 onwards.

Reply 24 of 34, by Joakim

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Ydee wrote on 2021-09-07, 09:23:

What's that mod with the capacitor?

Keen eye. Yes that looks strange. This is a pic from my card.

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Reply 25 of 34, by Gmlb256

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Oetker wrote on 2021-09-07, 07:01:

There's two types of hanging note bug and it's still got the less-frequent , yet still really annoying, kind, I can confirm this from first-hand experience.

I know about the type 2 hanging note as I have witnessed this too on several games. 😀

For me this wasn't a big deal unlike the single-cycle DMA clicking bug. If the OP doesn't intend to use the MPU-401 on this card at all then it's a moot point.

Ydee wrote on 2021-09-07, 09:23:

What's that mod with the capacitor?

I've seem some modding that improves the output quality on the SB16 such as boosting the bass response. For this one it doesn't seem very clear though.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 26 of 34, by kixs

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Joakim wrote on 2021-09-07, 09:54:
Ydee wrote on 2021-09-07, 09:23:

What's that mod with the capacitor?

Keen eye. Yes that looks strange. This is a pic from my card.

Screenshot_20210907-115236.jpg

Check revision of your card.

Requests are also possible... /msg kixs

Reply 28 of 34, by Gmlb256

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appiah4 wrote on 2021-09-07, 12:33:

Only if it had the CSP chip and even then if you really need it..

I find the CSP chip only useful for a very old computer running Windows. Cloudschatze did some stuff with this chip on Windows 95 years ago.

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Reply 30 of 34, by NyLan

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Ydee wrote on 2021-09-07, 09:23:

What's that mod with the capacitor?

This

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However I found at least 1 other 2290 card with the same thing on Ebay.

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Reply 32 of 34, by Einherje

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Ydee wrote on 2021-09-08, 08:45:

Yes, I know, but I wonder what the modification brings - less noise, cleaner sound, more pronounced heights/bass or something else?

Good question.

T74LS08 is a Quad 2-Input AND Gate.

Neither the ceramic THT cap, which connects 4Y to the ceramic SMD cap, or the trace between the SMD cap and Vcc are on the original design:

ct2290_001.jpg
ct2290_002.jpg

I don't know a lot about IC, but what would you hope to achieve by routing one of the four data outputs back to to the power input?

Maybe someone can enlighten us? I've found the data sheet for T74LS08 for anyone interested:

https://einherje.dk/vogons/T74LS08_datasheet.pdf

Reply 33 of 34, by mkarcher

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Einherje wrote on 2021-09-08, 12:48:
Ydee wrote on 2021-09-08, 08:45:

Yes, I know, but I wonder what the modification brings - less noise, cleaner sound, more pronounced heights/bass or something else?

T74LS08 is a Quad 2-Input AND Gate.

I don't know a lot about IC, but what would you hope to achieve by routing one of the four data outputs back to to the power input?

A 74LS08 is in the digital side of things, so this capacitor does not influence frequency response, and also very likely not the noise level. A capacitor between a power input (a fixed voltage) and an output of a logic chip forces the logic chip to work harder when the output switches between low and high, because every time the output goes high, the capacitor needs to be discharged, and every time the output goes low, the capacitor needs to be charged. This extra work causes the gate to act slower, up to the point where short pulses are suppressed completely. So the purpose of this capacitor might be a slight delay of one signal, to allow more processing time for other signals, or to suppress short glitches on a signal.

Another purpose could be that when you power on the card, the capacitor is discharged, forcing the output pin to be at the same level as the power pin, which will create a short moment where the output is high, no matter what the inputs are.

While I have no proof, I highly suspect this capacitor is used to improve ISA compatibility with certain mainboards.

Reply 34 of 34, by Einherje

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mkarcher wrote on 2021-09-08, 14:04:

While I have no proof, I highly suspect this capacitor is used to improve ISA compatibility with certain mainboards.

This is interesting! Thanks for explaining