Warlord wrote on 2021-10-16, 22:49:

If you were unlucky enough to buy an apple product I can understand the rage. […]
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If you were unlucky enough to buy an apple product I can understand the rage.

That being said apple is still the same company that makes consumer products, targeted for the type of consumer that don't know shit about computers or technology. It's a long standing meme that has truth to it.

If you are that type of person than apple making shitty products doesn't bother you because whenever somthing break you just throw it away anyways becasue thats how you are. Apple only care about gouging money from these kinds of people.

Apple is also part of a religion of a certain kind of people. And it don't matter how shitty it is they will just keep buying it becasue it is COOL and is what the hipsters do. If you are one of these kinds of people you don't know shit about shit also so there you go.

No matter how bad apple product get its about the profit, the more cheaper you can make it is better and you wont have any problems convicing these kinds of people that its worth a lot of money. They will gladly pay.

So there you have it. You might think that apple used to make better products but you are brainwashed and a fool. Up until maybe recently and maybe only with the super high end stuff that apple has sold in the past its never been competitive with PCs in performance or price.

You might also think well apple invents shit... No they don't invent anything, they take a bunch of other things already invented by other people and mix it up together into a recipie. Of their vision of how somthing should be. They are a recipie company.

Always a shitty company always will be a shitty company and if you think otherwise youre fooling yourself.

Generalization worded as if it were the absolute truth. Cool

Bondi wrote:

Yes, that's the paradox of the planned economy - used cars were more expensive than brand new cars.

Every big corporation has planned economy. We already see right before our eyes how "free market" is doing tricks with artificial scarcity with microchips. For example Nvidia won't ship chips to card manufacturers. And companies that sell luxury items were doing these shenanigans for decades now.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-10-17, 16:05:

Bondi wrote:

Yes, that's the paradox of the planned economy - used cars were more expensive than brand new cars.

Every big corporation has planned economy. We already see right before our eyes how "free market" is doing tricks with artificial scarcity with microchips. For example Nvidia won't ship chips to card manufacturers. And companies that sell luxury items were doing these shenanigans for decades now.

How dare we try to support rules that would allow governments to force companies that would make those companies not maximize their profits...

is what It, feels to me, sometimes boils down to.

I could of worded it differntly. Probably not absolute truth. More or less sentiments that I'm not the only person that has ever shared you know. I feel like a lot of the stuff I wrote before was stuff that perhaps a lot of people have thought before just isn't as dumb as me to write down. pls don't ban me. By the way their not total crap, the Iphone was great and it got better and better until they started getting worst. I would argue the way they locked it down, and locked out competition with their app store is total garbage. So its not perfect. Their worstations have for the most part been solid, talking about professional level systems not the desktops or imacs etc, even if overpriced and you could always build comparible PCs for less money. So its not all bad. It just must be said their reasons are not in the intrest of consumers. /thread

In the OP's defence, he seems to have had a terrible time with third party repair services. I can understand why he would trust Apple more than these outfits. Apple are overpriced, which could be considered a kind of theft, but at least when you take your computer in to them you don't have to worry (e.g.) that they'll swap out your fast memory and put slow memory in its place.

but at least when you take your computer in to them you don't have to worry (e.g.) that they'll swap out your fast memory and put slow memory in its place.

Sure thing, they'll just rip you off with full motherboard replacement. Only amateurs rip off with minor stuff. You go big or go bust!

In the end, RtoR only provides choice. It does not in any way take away anyones choice to bring their broken devices directly to the manufacturer. It only stops companies from locking away products that belong to someone else (their customers).

Right to repair is what I understand completely since I repair stuff for a living.

Without the information and parts we would not able to give the quality of repair in less time instead of replaced whole thing outright. Customers wanted options. In other words, right to repair translates to keeping something working for 10 years or more, instead of 2 to 4 years, less expense to the customer and people coming in I need parts for this or that; parts online or by mail order, means more people saying hey, that brand/model is very repairable by of the words then business who makes this a policy of right to repair into their business will have more future business.

I was able to revive a customer's PS4 using open source information and repair the corrupted firmware on it and reflash it back and didn't become banned when online.
Iphone repairs was forced by people doing research and creating data for all to use since apple say can't fix this, or too expensive at first and customers gaves this trumbs down, saying too expensive to repair and apple treat this as disposable (especially ipads) created this repair market. John Deere's stance is same thing. More examples: Xbox one series and Xbox series line customers wanted less cost and keep their saves, shorter turn around that microsoft cannot do, hence need for right to repair.

I needed schematic for hard to find issues too.

Cheers,

Datadrainer wrote on 2021-10-17, 08:45:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-10-16, 23:45:

Reminds me of recent generation game consoles. e.g Nintendo's Wii U and Switch with their user-unfriendly limited-life battery systems with little-to-no aftermarket support (try getting a reliable trusted Wii U Gamepad battery replacement, if you're outside the US and thus can't be shipped to from Ifixit, the one place in the world to offer a consensus good product), or the fact that a far-too-high % of consoles released since 2000 have endured "<whatever> Of Death" faults.

In many ways these things simply aren't built to last longer than 5-10 years. For obvious economic reasons. From a preservation and continuance POV it's unfortunate. Some people ethically dislike emulation of still-current systems, but the way things are going, the emulation scene needs to get cracking as soon as a product is released, just to achieve accurate preservation within the hardware's feasible lifecycle.

That's true about the Gamepad, but also true about the official Wii Remote Rapid Charging Set for the Remote with a shitty battery pack absolutely impossible to find alone even during it was sold. That is surely the same for portable consoles (GBA, DS & 3DS variations) but their batteries, at least resist more than 2 years... But there is still unofficial products, sometime of great quality.

And from what I have read on this thread, the question should no be to have a right to repair for the customers which makes little sense, but more about a duty to allow repairability and maintenance for the manufacturers. Which from my point of view is an absolute necessity for the future, at least if we want to have one.

Yes that's it. Ultimately this topic is about conservation : minimising the wastefulness which is encouraged by our throw-away plastic consumer society.

Many of us still have daily use for computers that are 30-40 years old, which run perfectly fine and probably will for many more years or even decades, with a few minor maintenance. Meanwhile, the earth is stuffed with millions of the rusted broken down husks of literally the same thing, because we got bored with them, or perhaps one capacitor or resistor went bad.

Same with every single type of electronic consumer product in existence. We're just burying most of the damned things 99% intact, like silly dogs with a bone.

Many of us still have daily use for computers that are 30-40 years old, which run perfectly fine and probably will for many more years or even decades, with a few minor maintenance. Meanwhile, the earth is stuffed with millions of the rusted broken down husks of literally the same thing, because we got bored with them, or perhaps one capacitor or resistor went bad.

Looking for the soul in a plastic world
Looking for the skin on my plastic girl, oh yeah
Champagne smile and a camera flash
Bubble gum lips in a bubble bath, oh yeah

Errius wrote on 2021-10-17, 18:01:

In the OP's defence, he seems to have had a terrible time with third party repair services. I can understand why he would trust Apple more than these outfits. Apple are overpriced, which could be considered a kind of theft, but at least when you take your computer in to them you don't have to worry (e.g.) that they'll swap out your fast memory and put slow memory in its place.

Yah, they do that slowdown in software 🤣

Errius wrote on 2021-10-17, 18:01:

In the OP's defence, he seems to have had a terrible time with third party repair services. I can understand why he would trust Apple more than these outfits. Apple are overpriced, which could be considered a kind of theft, but at least when you take your computer in to them you don't have to worry (e.g.) that they'll swap out your fast memory and put slow memory in its place.

Seconded. I could feel his frustration, but he used his unlucky personal experience to attack the entire ecosystem -- something I couldn't agree.

It's like visiting a [insert country here] cuisine restaurant but the food tastes awful and/or have sanitary problems, then claim "all [insert country here] restaurants are sh*t!"

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-10-18, 03:06:

Errius wrote on 2021-10-17, 18:01:

In the OP's defence, he seems to have had a terrible time with third party repair services. I can understand why he would trust Apple more than these outfits. Apple are overpriced, which could be considered a kind of theft, but at least when you take your computer in to them you don't have to worry (e.g.) that they'll swap out your fast memory and put slow memory in its place.

Yah, they do that slowdown in software 🤣

Yes, it's called an OS update!

(Runs for cover!)

Datadrainer wrote on 2021-10-17, 08:45:

And from what I have read on this thread, the question should no be to have a right to repair for the customers which makes little sense, but more about a duty to allow repairability and maintenance for the manufacturers. Which from my point of view is an absolute necessity for the future, at least if we want to have one.

yes that's a much better way of putting it, and then clearly marks this area down as belong together with other standards that already exist, are already accepted by the public and are mostly also agreed upon and often welcomed by manufacturers as a means of setting the rules of the 'game'

put this way the above duty is in line with duties to label accurately, to test foods for safety, to apply standards for electrical safety and so on

I doubt it would have caused an argument if worded as you had, or at least it would have flushed out some very odd and difficult to defend viewpoints!

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-10-17, 16:05:

Bondi wrote:

Yes, that's the paradox of the planned economy - used cars were more expensive than brand new cars.

Every big corporation has planned economy. We already see right before our eyes how "free market" is doing tricks with artificial scarcity with microchips. For example Nvidia won't ship chips to card manufacturers. And companies that sell luxury items were doing these shenanigans for decades now.

This seems the same thing that Intel for instance did before AMD came up with Zen. It seems to me like just trying to milk the market.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2021-10-16, 10:18:

Praise the Omnissiah!

Am I the only one who got and laughed loudly at this?

Errius wrote on 2021-10-16, 23:14:

Yes, I wonder how long ATX will be around. We've never had standardization in the laptop space. The big computer makers would like to do the same for desktops.

Own a Dell and want to upgrade the video card? Sorry, only Dell-made cards will fit your computer....

If MCA taught us anything, this will be a disastrous attempt 🤣

Tetrium wrote:

It seems to me like just trying to milk the market.

Of course they are. And they want to set current crazy prices for GPUs as new norm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMStwE9ZKdg

I find it hard to understand why it is suggested that a corp./store can make a product however they choose, yet if another corp./store wishes to modify/repair it, this is immoral and should be illegal? Seems contradictory to me.

If your going to have a free-for-all for the original company, then if you're following laissez-faire capitalism you have to do the same for any other company/individual.

And to suggest RtoR is somehow left-wing? Judging by the comments from people living in the former soviet block, RtoR is more anti-left-wing if anything.

Also if you don't have the right to repair something then what happens if the company goes bust?

Second be careful of governments/people saying they are granting you a right. This is a clever slight-of-hand. The government does NOT grant rights. It only recognizes them. The slight-of-hand is that if they can get people to believe a right is granted by the government, they can also take them away. You ALWAYS have your rights, wherever you are, just some governments choose not to recognize them. A right is intrinsic to you. Like free speech etc.

Now this is a much better description of what RtoR actually is

Datadrainer wrote on 2021-10-17, 08:45:

And from what I have read on this thread, the question should no be to have a right to repair for the customers which makes little sense, but more about a duty to allow repairability and maintenance for the manufacturers. Which from my point of view is an absolute necessity for the future, at least if we want to have one.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to make manufactures design things that are repairable.