cyclone3d wrote on 2021-10-19, 21:20:

Ehhh.. obsolete in a matter of months is kinda stretching it unless you buy the lowest tier phones available.

My wife kept her iPhone 6, which I bought her when it was first released, until the iPhone XI was out... and she didn't mind keeping it even longer but she was always out of space and the battery life had gotten pretty sad and it was starting to have random issues.

I usually keep my Android devices 2-3 years but have almost always gotten the mid-tier devices. This next go around I am planning on getting the Pixel 6 Pro which should hopefully last me at least 3-4 years.

Months/years - it's only the number that varies.

Microsoft has never been lauded for their security policy, but Windows XP got security updates for 13 years (or 18, if you include the widely distributed POS updates).

Phones cease to get security updates within 3-5 years.

As of 2020, some reports suggested that over 1 billion people were still stuck on vulnerable devices. I think the figure is likely more, as the survey methodologies are naturally biased towards the affluent, using metrics like Google Play which the poorest end of society will never even use, let alone be statistically represented in!

Big Pink wrote on 2021-10-19, 21:40:

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-10-19, 20:42:

You'll all be sorry when the Cylons arrive! 😉

I've been looking for a label for my disdain for the nightmare that is the modern pervasive internet and then I recalled how the Galactica wasn't networked. Adamaism.

There we go! Cylon syndrome, Thrace fever, Apollo's bane, it goes under many titles but the basic principle is that doors should be opened with care.

Yes, but phones also don't generally work that great after 3-5 years either. At the very least the battery will need to be replaced. I've also witnessed really poor cell reception when using older phones. Only thing I can figure is that the providers drop them down on the priority list or limit the signal to phones older than a certain age.

Helps them sell new phones, claiming that they will have better reception and faster data transfer.

As for updates, it is not as complicated logistics-wise for a Windows OS as it would be for updates on devices with mfg customized images. If everybody would just drop down to bare Android then things would be much simpler... but that would make sense and then the different manufacturers would have to only really compete on actual hardware.

this would be an excellent thing in my opinion, but that ain't going to happen as the mfgs really like their gimmicks and bloatware.

Exactly, and we are basically making the same argument - forced obsolescence for profit, for "reasons" (reasons which only exist because the commercial market has specifically structured everything to suit), and thus we have a world ruled by products whose watchwords are things like "gimmick" and "bloat". Where people's social connections are held as the ransom against which consumers must capitulate to all commercial compromise - a price all pay willingly, else be excluded.

And the *massive* responsibility that should go hand-in-hand with commercial control of such powerful all-invasive devices - if anything, legacy phone security should be -more- robust than it's PC counterpart - instead takes a back seat to mother profit.

Battery obsolescence is itself a massive environmental problem, logistically akin to throwing away your entire computer because the power supply failed, only with phones, "everybody" is doing it approximately once every 5 years (nom nom nom, says the planet!).

I still use my Note 9. It was a wonderful "investment" and the only downside is the battery capacity has been noticeably weakened in the last few months. If it gets to the place where I can't go all day then I might look into a battery replacement.

That's the whole crux of R2R.
[tinfoilhat]
I honestly think the impetus for all this bullshit are stockholders. Business A builds product A. Its a good product and the business is successful. To grow the business, they "go public" and suddenly there are investors whose only goal in life is to suck as much money out of their "investment" as humanly possible. They care nothing for the business beyond their dividends. This pressures the people of the business to hire CEO's that appease the investors and long story short, a new Activision is born.

I believe the PEOPLE that actually make the product care about making a good product. The blood sucking parasites in human form (CEO, stockholders, etc) are the problem. If they are taxed into oblivion, I honestly believe R2R would be a moot point.

[/tinfoilhat]

TL;DR: Eat the rich.

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-10-19, 22:40:

Battery obsolescence is itself a massive environmental problem, logistically akin to throwing away your entire computer because the power supply failed, only with phones, "everybody" is doing it approximately once every 5 years (nom nom nom, says the planet!).

I know Microshaft gets a bit of flack for xbox controllers (and alot of other devices) using AA batteries but honestly its WONDERFUL. I use their keyboard/mice that have replaceable batteries just for that fact. I use rechargeable & replaceable batteries where I can.

Nintendo Wii controllers also have the option of using AA batteries. That is great as well.

As for companies that go on the stock exchange... bleh. Each company that does this should have the foresight of setting specific rules in order to maintain quality and to build stuff the way they see fit. The stockholders can go pound sand if they don't like it.

Pretty sure this would make for a really, really profitable and long-lived company instead of one that only cares for the short-term profits. As somebody who has seen how a public company is run, it is an actual nightmare for job security as well as profitability and marketability.

You have the upper management doing the best they can to hold onto employees while the company is literally being flushed down the drain because of stock holder requirements.

if anything, legacy phone security should be -more- robust than it's PC counterpart

You can't hack Nokia 3310, even if you really want it. Or any pre-android devices really, they are so old that nobody cares about them in terms of exploits.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-10-19, 23:10:

As for companies that go on the stock exchange... bleh. Each company that does this should have the foresight of setting specific rules in order to maintain quality and to build stuff the way they see fit. The stockholders can go pound sand if they don't like it.

Except NOBODY ever has the stones to say no to that much money. I mean NOBODY. I would happily sell out if it meant I could lay on my ass the rest of my life. Isn't that the American Dream(tm)?

I mean, I guess there is the rare exception to the previous statement, there is always an exception to the rule, but I feel that anyone that chooses this path will be destroyed when a competing company makes a suspiciously similar product that utterly destroys the first company. Looking at Amazon here with their "basics" product line.

I'd personally tax the sale of stock. Have it based on time. The longer you hold, the less tax you pay (to a point). I'd also ban computers from doing any trading. Make those "investors" actually do some semblance of work for their ill gotten gains.

Ehhh... If I had a company. not sure I would ever go public. As long as I am making enough money to have a very comfortable retirement I would be fine with keeping it private... or if going public, I would put very strong restrictions on what shareholders would be able to do... as in nothing except recommend things. They would have absolutely no control on dictating the direction of the company. That would be for the actual people who worked there to do.

But that is just me. Most people would take the money and run.

That's "corporate business" in general - it abstracts away individual responsibility, for unapologetic no-holds-barred (except what the law *forces*!) primary focus upon financial profit.

But we probably won't solve that conundrum with this thread...?

I picture an xkcd comic: "Where is our right-to-repair our souls?!", she plaintively cries to the heavens. :p

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-10-19, 21:20:

My wife kept her iPhone 6, which I bought her when it was first released, until the iPhone XI was out... and she didn't mind keeping it even longer but she was always out of space and the battery life had gotten pretty sad and it was starting to have random issues.

My everyday phone is still a Nexus 5. I've replaced the battery on it like 3 times already, but despite that "flaw" is still a good phone even today... Smaller than it goes into my pockets very well, without having 1/2 brick peeking out them (and the screen cracking risk which comes from from it).
Which would be useless now, because it came with Android 4 and later in its life updated to Android 6, and these aren't allowed to connect "officially" to modern "secure" internet anymore. I got extra life on it by unlocking and installing on it LineageOS (Android 7.1.1) + Magisk to crack on apps who want to force you to have a brand (samsung, lg, etc) locked phone to use them (banking ones mostly, these in my country don't install on cheap phones like Xiaomi even with the firmware locked and never unlocked). With this extra life I gave to it, as today it still can cope with the tasks I have assigned to it.

But I dunno how much time will be possible keep doing it. "They" are closing the door more and more as time passes.

Errius wrote on 2021-10-19, 04:02:

Regarding the TPM issue again. If every computer has a unique TPM, and websites can interact with this TPM for encryption purposes, surely this will compromise anonymity?

(I remember a long time ago a similar controversy over Pentium III serial numbers.)

When I first heard about TPM I thought it sounded terrible. At first you can probably disable it, soon though you'll probably require it to browse the web. Make a VPN practically useless. It's probably all ok in the USA where you have freedom of speech. Here in the UK people frequently go to jail/get fined for mean tweets. Seriously the police have gone round peoples houses to 'check peoples thinking' for 'liking' a limerick. It's already a dystopian nightmare here. At any rate, why is this TPM needed?

I think the main reason MS likes TPM is that it will make piracy of Windows harder. DRM in general will become harder to evade.

Oh goody. What a fun thread.

Down here we have the Consumers Guarantee Act .

Fuck Apple.

Errius wrote on 2021-10-20, 01:59:

I think the main reason MS likes TPM is that it will make piracy of Windows harder. DRM in general will become harder to evade.

What would be the point of "piracy" with MS Windows anymore? For all intents and purposes, 10 and 11 are free. If you somehow run out of Windows 7 keys, you can just go buy keys on eBay for like $3 a piece.

Use the cheap key and tie it to your MS account and you can move that key freely to a different system if you retire the original system or replace too much hardware in the original system.

MS Office keys are fairly cheap on eBay as well.

But with all this crap, TPM, forced updates and restarts is windows worth pirating?

mR_Slug wrote on 2021-10-20, 05:20:

But with all this crap, TPM, forced updates and restarts is windows worth pirating?

What's a forced restart? I only use the Pro version which is what any self respecting intelligent Windows user should be using... No excuse to use the crap Home version unless you are technologically illiterate in which case the Home version is exactly what you should be using.

Yes, that is how it should be. I don't care for any massive bot nets to become a regular thing like they were back in the day.

Does selling your kidney to black market to obtain a new iphone considered as retro activity 😁

https://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mo … 1eaf09243fc14e7

Imho there'd be no problem if some companies would make a closed unrepairable by the consumer product if that would not possibly led theorically others or the entire market to consider that specific road and this seems a time where it's not like there're many products alternatives. I understand many phones after few years would be slow cause apps and the web itself get heavier anyway but anyway open third party droid installations demonstrated how very old devices could be upgraded much further than they usually are. There're very old devices where some official or less developers still compile modern o.s. for beside the kernel, but at least the o.s., API and security patches usually are more modern than the long forgotten official ones.

Then it could be discussed why everything became so heavy needing to upgrade at such speed when basically generic consumers always does the same tasks. Like the TV back in the 80's and 90's they worked just fine with analog tech for decades, even a 70's TV could be used in the 90's; some might just not care about digital video quality, HD or on demand apps or whatever. I suppose XP and even some older linux versions has been one of the last o.s. to have that old style "consumer oriented idea". Some usually says "after a decade it's normal hw and sw should be unusable" but why? If nowdays we'd still have 56K modems and related computer configs there'd be so much differences in everyday consumer life? Or GPRS minimal connectivity for mobile? Of course nowdays there's another lifestyle compared to the past but at the end I don't see so many differences "conceptually". Just like books and newspapers, they still exists and works just fine. Would an "ebook AI driven car connected whatever high end modern technology reader" be an essential life changing device? Maybe it'd be more important what the book talk about before the tech where the book is read on.

It's really annoying that HD TVs bought for big money early last decade can no longer use internet services like YouTube. Was it so hard for YT to maintain compatibility with these devices?