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Yamaha YMF724 on i845

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First post, by stealthjoe

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Hi,

I recently got two YMF724s in order to experience OPL3 on a PCI only system. First ran the Yamaha driver setup under 98 and then rebooted the system. The card was detected at startup and the drivers started installing (removed all traces of SBLive drivers previously). However am getting a BSOD (A fatal exception 0E has occurred at 0028:C0031B0A) as soon as the system is installing the driver for Yamaha legacy mode. Tried restarting the system but got a windows protection error on startup of Win 98.

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Then booted into safe mode and unchecked the automatic configuration for Yamaha legacy mode. Now was able to login back to 98 and was getting sound. However, the volume (despite the volume control high) is extremely low and tried running Doom, but no FM or SFX. Looks like improperly installed drivers. The sound does not even work properly for Win9X games.

Could someone please share their experience on installing YMF724 on 845 chipset and how to fix the BSOD? Thanks.

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 2 of 22, by zapbuzz

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on the ymf724 thread you will se a collection of drivers there is one that is the best of the lot for 98se quality and stability, it is a wdm driver with full support for acceleration but i uncheck whql checking as it not signed.
be aware sound beyond 41000khz in waveform resolution is muted so be sure your preferences ar not set for 48000 khz or sound will clip into a vanishing effect.

Reply 3 of 22, by stealthjoe

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WDM drivers are indeed stable, but no OPL3 support in 9x. Please let me know otherwise.

Last edited by stealthjoe on 2021-10-23, 09:56. Edited 1 time in total.

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 4 of 22, by Joseph_Joestar

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I'm not sure which driver version you're using, but I always found the 1040 VxD driver to be the best when paired with DirectX 7.0a. You can download it from Phil's website.

Note that there are also some fake YMF7x4 cards which cannot be used with Yamaha's official drivers. A picture of your card could help determine if you have one of those, by chance.

Lastly, it's possible that the Yamaha and SBLive DOS emulation layers don't work together nicely. Try temporarily disabling the SBLive through Device Manager and see if that makes any difference.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 5 of 22, by stealthjoe

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Below is the pic of the card tried yesterday:

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Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 6 of 22, by stealthjoe

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-10-23, 09:55:

I'm not sure which driver version you're using, but I always found the 1040 VxD driver to be the best when paired with DirectX 7.0a. You can download it from Phil's website.

Note that there are also some fake YMF7x4 cards which cannot be used with Yamaha's official drivers. A picture of your card could help determine if you have one of those, by chance.

Lastly, it's possible that the Yamaha and SBLive DOS emulation layers don't work together nicely. Try temporarily disabling the SBLive through Device Manager and see if that makes any difference.

I actually tried the same 1040 version from Phil's site. Had removed the SB live and its drivers completely before installing this one. Went into safe mode and ensured to remove every trace of SB live.

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 7 of 22, by Joseph_Joestar

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That's a legit YMF724F-V made by Labway, so no issues on that end.

Playing around with different driver versions is your best bet. A clean install of Win9x might help as well. In particular, Creative's drivers tend to leave a lot of junk behind when uninstalled, which could be causing some conflicts.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 8 of 22, by stealthjoe

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Ironically had faced the exact same blue screen and error when trying to install VxD drivers for ESS Solo1938s. Now its happening with YMF724. It happens at the moment when legacy audio drivers are being installed. WDM drivers had no issues whatsoever, but also no DOS support.

Didn't face the above issue while installing VxD drivers for SB Live.

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 9 of 22, by zapbuzz

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I think i'd run 98 1st edition for legacy drivers but I use mine for other things than dos people say so little about their hardware here its hard to tell what kinks their stuff has.

Last edited by zapbuzz on 2021-10-25, 12:42. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 10 of 22, by Joseph_Joestar

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stealthjoe wrote on 2021-10-23, 10:15:

Ironically had faced the exact same blue screen and error when trying to install VxD drivers for ESS Solo1938s. Now its happening with YMF724. It happens at the moment when legacy audio drivers are being installed. WDM drivers had no issues whatsoever, but also no DOS support.

If this is happening with two separate cards, it might be worth checking if you have a resource conflict. Go to Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System Information > Hardware Resources and check the IRQ and DMA sections. You want IRQ 5 and DMA 1 to be free i.e. not shared with other devices. Technically, sharing those should work under Win98, but from my experience, it rarely ever does for sound cards.

Disabling serial and parallel ports in the BIOS can free up some resources. And in the worst of cases, disabling USB can sometimes help as well. Obviously, you also want to fully disable your on-board sound card, if any.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 11 of 22, by Warlord

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stealthjoe wrote on 2021-10-23, 10:15:

Ironically had faced the exact same blue screen and error when trying to install VxD drivers for ESS Solo1938s. Now its happening with YMF724. It happens at the moment when legacy audio drivers are being installed. WDM drivers had no issues whatsoever, but also no DOS support.

Didn't face the above issue while installing VxD drivers for SB Live.

Depends on the game. WDM drivers can provide DOSBOX support if running DOS games in windows same as VXD drivers. However some games don't work. Example of games are build engine games like DN3D, and Shadow Warrior those are "DOS" games when run in 9x will work with WDM drivers. And shadow warrior can use Daemon tools for the CD audio, that doesn't work at all with the VXDs.

Example of Game that doesn't work with WDM is like WOLF3d that game works with only the VXDs. The Drivers for XGs as a whole are a mixed bag so much so that I 2 installs of 98se on the same computer with my XG, One with WDM and the other with VXDs. There are pros and cons to both sets of drivers.

I didn't want to say this before becasue I thought that it shouldn't be a problem but, You need to free IRQs if you want to use VXDs. Make sure that IRQ 5 or 7 which ever one you are going to use is free. You can check that with windows accessories system tools system information hardware resorces. If you don't have those IRQs free even if you managed to install the VXDs and windows assign it IRQ 10 or somthing its not going to work for any games. You also need DMA 1 or 3 Free or again not working. So thats somthing to think about.

Reply 12 of 22, by stealthjoe

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Thank you for the info. Went into the system properties and noted that a usb controller was using the interrupt 5. So disabled this one. Also noticed that an IRQ steering was using the interrupt 5. Was unable to disable this one. If I try to uncheck IRQ steering under PCI Bus and reboot the system, I get 2 IRQ steerings using the IRQ 5.

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After this proceeded to install the YMf724 card. Was again getting the BSOD. Then followed the usual step of getting into safe mode and setting the legacy configuration into manual and booted into 98. Now comes another headache. My graphics card is now using IRQ 5.

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From above we can see that IRQ conflicts exist with the graphics card as well as IRQ steering. However, I am indeed getting the Windows sound and few DOS games are working. These include Doom2, Crystal Maze, Wolfenstein 3D & Sky Roads albeit all very low volume. Doom is still not working and Prince 2 hangs up as soon as the prince hits the guard (faced the same issue with Cmedia 8738).

So it looks like the card was somehow made to work but the IRQ conflicts still exist and DOS compatibility under Windows is quite poor. Not sure if it is because of the IRQ conflicts or the actual nature of YMF 724 card. If I proceed to install my SBlive, the graphics card then reverts to IRQ 11.

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 13 of 22, by Stainlesscat

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stealthjoe wrote on 2021-10-25, 03:58:
Thank you for the info. Went into the system properties and noted that a usb controller was using the interrupt 5. So disabled t […]
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Thank you for the info. Went into the system properties and noted that a usb controller was using the interrupt 5. So disabled this one. Also noticed that an IRQ steering was using the interrupt 5. Was unable to disable this one. If I try to uncheck IRQ steering under PCI Bus and reboot the system, I get 2 IRQ steerings using the IRQ 5.

IRQ.jpeg

After this proceeded to install the YMf724 card. Was again getting the BSOD. Then followed the usual step of getting into safe mode and setting the legacy configuration into manual and booted into 98. Now comes another headache. My graphics card is now using IRQ 5.

IRQ2.jpeg

Yamaha.jpeg

Legacy.jpeg

From above we can see that IRQ conflicts exist with the graphics card as well as IRQ steering. However, I am indeed getting the Windows sound and few DOS games are working. These include Doom2, Crystal Maze, Wolfenstein 3D & Sky Roads albeit all very low volume. Doom is still not working and Prince 2 hangs up as soon as the prince hits the guard (faced the same issue with Cmedia 8738).

So it looks like the card was somehow made to work but the IRQ conflicts still exist and DOS compatibility under Windows is quite poor. Not sure if it is because of the IRQ conflicts or the actual nature of YMF 724 card. If I proceed to install my SBlive, the graphics card then reverts to IRQ 11.

I've notice there is a lot sharing going on irq 5 which is ok for regular pci devices, but the yamaha legacy sound system driver expects to be on it's own legacy PnP ISA resources as others mentioned because it's sound blaster emulation needs it's own dedicated resources. if i were you, i would disable the lpt port on irq 7 and disable the com ports so that the acpi bios can assign the USB ports on those interrupts which makes it easier to reserve PnP resources. alternatively if the bios allows it... i would reserve irq 5 or 7 for yamaha sound blaster emulation.
Although non of this is not necessary if you are using wdm drivers for the ymf card.

Reply 14 of 22, by stealthjoe

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Stainlesscat wrote on 2021-10-25, 04:18:

if i were you, i would disable the lpt port on irq 7 and disable the com ports so that the acpi bios can assign the USB ports on those interrupts which makes it easier to reserve PnP resources. alternatively if the bios allows it... i would reserve irq 5 or 7 for yamaha sound blaster emulation.
Although non of this is not necessary if you are using wdm drivers for the ymf card.

Tried disabling the serial/parallel ports in BIOS, but was getting windows protection error. So reverted them. Would be more interested to know how to reserve irq 5 for the card. I set the IRQ to 5 for the 2nd PCI slot (where the YMF724 is installed) under BIOS, but to no avail. Was still getting the same BSOD and FX 5600 is grabbing this interrupt (out of nowhere when it was already using 11).

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 15 of 22, by Warlord

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Thats your problem you have IRQ sharing hell. If I were you disable both serials, disable USB, disable parralel LPT port. There maybe an option in the BIOS for PNP OS use that so you can try and force move the Geforce card off IRQ 5, You shouldn't have the graphics card on IRQ 5 anyways or sharing any resources with anything. The sound card should be on IRQ 7 DMA 1 if you can put it there.

Reply 16 of 22, by stealthjoe

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I was able to disable USB and it freed the interrupt 5. Searched in the BIOS and was able to find an option for Enable PnP OS (Yes/No). Otherwise there were no options to move graphics card to a different interrupt. Any idea on how to get rid of ACPI IRQ holder for PCI IRQ Steering? I tried to disable it under PCI Bus (by unchecking the IRQ Steering). However on reboot, the IRQ Steering keeps installing automatically (despite being disabled). This one is also using the interrupt 5 and could be a cause for the issue.

Intel 845GEBV2, Pentium 4 2.4 Ghz, Geforce FX5600 256MB, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Sound Blaster Live! SB0100 - Win 98/XP

Reply 17 of 22, by Joseph_Joestar

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To clarify a few things, YMF7x4 cards use two IRQs. One for the card itself (usually 10) and another one for the Sound Blaster emulation device (usually 5). The card can also share these two IRQs (e.g. using 5 for both), but results aren't always optimal when this occurs under Windows. The "ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering" entry is normal and accompanies all PCI devices.

In your case, I would suggest disabling USB, COM and LPT ports in the BIOS and then doing a clean install of Win98SE. That way, Windows should detect the newly freed IRQ entries and use them correctly, which will hopefully put your sound card on IRQ 5 without any conflicts.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 18 of 22, by zapbuzz

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perhaps the sound blaster emulation will be useful under real dos boot with an irq config in autoexec.bat than expecting windows to support soundblaster emulation thats probably dos anyhow

Reply 19 of 22, by Warlord

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TO clarify somthing about prince of persia. That game uses IRQ 7 not 5 and I don't think you can change that. Just felt like I needed to repeat myself. So ya IRQ 5 isnt going to work for that game. You might find a lot of guides out there of people saying oh IRQ 5 about everything becasue that is the defualt port SBlasters used. But thats not really right. Pretty much every game lets you use IrQ 7 as well, and some games like prince of persia are hard coded for 7. So ya dont fall victim to that. Also you might need to use the XG pure Dos drivers for that one, not sure I'll test it out later.