I am in the process of putting together a 486 VLB build with a Biostar MB-1433/50UCV-e motherboard and 486DX/50 CPU. I currently have a Diamond Viper VLB 2MB video card. Will this video card operate at 50MHz? I am still waiting on parts, but I just want to know what to expect when trying running 486 VLB system at this speed.
Advice on making a stable VLB build
had success with at 50mhz and 0 waitstates was an AvanceLogic / ALG2228 on an GA-486VS.
S3-805-VLB (Spea Mirage)
Sadly you have to test a bunch of cards and motherboards to get to the optimal configuration, lots of trial and error above 40mhz FSB
If worse comes to worse, I have 2MB ISA CL-GD5429 video card I can use. Not optimal, but that is at least my back up plan.
jasa1063 wrote on 2021-11-29, 03:32:If worse comes to worse, I have 2MB ISA CL-GD5429 video card I can use. Not optimal, but that is at least my back up plan.
Try your existing card at 1ws
It’s slower than 0ws at 33mhz but still better than isa
rmay635703 wrote on 2021-11-29, 03:37:jasa1063 wrote on 2021-11-29, 03:32:If worse comes to worse, I have 2MB ISA CL-GD5429 video card I can use. Not optimal, but that is at least my back up plan.
Try your existing card at 1ws
It’s slower than 0ws at 33mhz but still better than isa
Thanks for the tip. I will certainly try that once I get all the parts and get it assembled.
Are you going to focus on DOS or Windows for this build? The Diamond Viper VLB is known to be extremely slow on DOS at the standard 320x200 VGA resolution most games use, I think even some ISA cards beat it. However performance on Windows and VESA modes in DOS should be good.
The Cirrus Logic should be much much faster in DOS while being competitive in Windows.
Of course this is all assuming you can get either of these to run at 50MHz.
jasa1063 wrote on 2021-11-29, 03:32:If worse comes to worse, I have 2MB ISA CL-GD5429 video card I can use. Not optimal, but that is at least my back up plan.
Doing a 486 VLB build soon. I have a Boca GD5429 VLB. I really hope it works because performance is markedly superior to the ISA version. I think your incompat. is due to your specific board and I doubt I would even have that issue. I have a PT-430 which can do 50MHz and I will be trying that with my Am486DX4-120. I would rather have the bus speed over absolute clock and run at 1x or 2x. At 2x, it is going to hold its own with an early pentium. 3X might match a mid lifespan Pentium, such as P90 or P100.
jasa1063 wrote on 2021-11-29, 03:32:If worse comes to worse, I have 2MB ISA CL-GD5429 video card I can use. Not optimal, but that is at least my back up plan.
I've had those running at 60, but they needed a heatsink to avoid corruption in windows after running 10 mins or so.
Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.
TheMobRules wrote on 2021-11-29, 03:50:Are you going to focus on DOS or Windows for this build? The Diamond Viper VLB is known to be extremely slow on DOS at the standard 320x200 VGA resolution most games use, I think even some ISA cards beat it. However performance on Windows and VESA modes in DOS should be good.
The Cirrus Logic should be much much faster in DOS while being competitive in Windows.
Of course this is all assuming you can get either of these to run at 50MHz.
It will be running DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11. I already know about the DOS performance issues because of the Oak OTI087X SVGA chip. I am not really too worried about that.
BitWrangler wrote on 2021-11-29, 05:06:jasa1063 wrote on 2021-11-29, 03:32:If worse comes to worse, I have 2MB ISA CL-GD5429 video card I can use. Not optimal, but that is at least my back up plan.
I've had those running at 60, but they needed a heatsink to avoid corruption in windows after running 10 mins or so.
Thanks for the info!
If you're not going to run your graphics card at 50MHz 0WS, then don't even bother. Fast graphics are probably the only real benefit you're going to see at 50MHz, since your main memory and cache will require extra waitstates yielding performance similar to an optimally tuned 33MHz system if you're lucky.
From my own experience and from what I've read over the years, it seems that very few VRAM based cards will work at 50MHz 0WS. Your best bet is to use something DRAM based with as late a production date as possible. 45ns DRAMs on the graphics card are probably also a good idea. I also heard that soldered in memory is more tolerant than memory installed in sockets.
The two cards I own that work well at 50MHz are a Hercules Dynamite Power with ET4000W32i, and ARK1000VL. My ARK actually seems to work at 60ns OWS, even with 60ns RAM. Other cards to consider would be Trident TVGA 9440, S3 864/868, CL GD542x, and similar. Not sure how stuff like Trio64, CL GD5434 and other highly integrated chips work, but my impression is that they may top out at 40.
Taking your drive controller off VLB is probably also a good idea, since VLB 1.0 doesn't even officially support 1 slotted card at 50MHz, much less two.
"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium
Anonymous Coward wrote on 2021-11-29, 06:25:your main memory and cache will require extra waitstates yielding performance similar to an optimally tuned 33MHz system if you're lucky
this is far from a guarantee
using fast late production 72-pin SIMMs can absolutely allow for tight timings at 50MHz that blow 33MHz away
I haven't gotten the motherboard yet, but from looking at the settings, each VLB slot can be configured for synchronous or aynchronous operation. That should solved any issues with the 50MHz FSB speed.
https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboards/B/B … -486-MB-97.html
jasa1063 wrote on 2021-12-02, 04:38:I haven't gotten the motherboard yet, but from looking at the settings, each VLB slot can be configured for synchronous or aynchronous operation. That should solved any issues with the 50MHz FSB speed.
https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/motherboards/B/B … -486-MB-97.html
That's something I haven't seen before. I'm really curious about how that works, and what the performance is like.
"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium
I decided to hedge my bets on this build and I am picking up a Cirrus Logic CL-GD5426 VLB card that supports a 50MHz FSB. Going price was only $29 plus $6 shipping on eBay. This will also make DOS benchmarking much more meaningful. Looking at the memory chips on this card they appear to be 256Kx4 so that would make this a 1MB card, more than enough for DOS & Windows 3.1. The Diamond Viper VLB card I currently have uses an Oak Technologies OTI087X for DOS and I understand the interface is only 8-bits and only 256K of ram dedicated to it. It should be fun running benchmarks with both cards:)
